Why do you guys rarely mention Sierra/Lapua target bullets?

[Erik Cortina]

To answer your question: When companies get pushed, as is going on now and for some time there observations and product control starts to diminish and loose sight of direction and order.
With some companies GREED steps in and push comes to shove, harder and harder till the consumers of that product become tired and uncomfortable believing in it any more and it migrate to other similar products.

It is the same regardless of the product. FACT!

So you are accusing Lapua of doing that?

And by the way, I own four companies and I can assure you that it is not a fact.

 

[Steve Blair]

To answer your question: When companies get pushed, as is going on now and for some time there (sic) observations and product control starts to diminish and loose (sic) sight of direction and order.
With some companies GREED steps in and push comes to shove, harder and harder till the consumers of that product become tired and uncomfortable believing in it any more and it migrate to other similar products.

It is the same regardless of the product. FACT!

[br]
I have been both an employee and customer of more than a few engineering and manufacturing companies and your statement is absurd. Many companies will not compromise product quality or their integrity, regardless market pressure. [br]
And, here are some helpful tips to improve your language quality. [br]
http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/loose_lose.htm
http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/there_their_theyre.htm

 

[Ghansen]

Some of these posts worry me when the topic changes direction. I have served many companies over the years and observed various practices. I think that to stay competitive these days your best product development and manufacturing practices involve innovation, consistency and precision equating to a quality product. Now provided that profit for the shareholders does not become a determining factor in the actual product we can also assume that the ingredients used will be maintained at a pre determined level of quality. Ultimately the market decides many things, and if it feels good and if it fits, I'll wear it. Ego is not a dirty word, and I hope all our suppliers have a healthy one.

 

[searcher]

I think Sierra and Lapua are still putting out some great bullets and I do believe they have been pushed to make them better because of our botique bullet makers. While I don't think the O.P. meant a direct attack on Lapua, it seems the worst thing out there these days is a company that makes money. Why? Gimme a break. We have great bullet companies and I for one, believe they are entitled to a nice profit. No guns to our heads here. There are bigger risks in life than getting a bad batch of brass.

 

[johara1]

Many years ago this topic on the brass was beat to death about annealing before you fire form to dasher brass,and i got ripped for saying anything about not being annealed properly. That is in the past, by annealing before fire forming i stopped getting a cracked shoulder except once in awhile you will get one due to a imperfection in the brass like a fold and when you cut it open it will extend down the side.
Th e out of round bullets, are another story, I always check them for shank size and pressure ring and i note it for further use when i trim and point them but it never reached that point. They may shoot but i'm at the point were i don't want to start with something that has a defect. They may be good for some other discipline, but not for what i'm looking for good…….. jim

 

[Changeling]

My language quality will be fine when I get over the concussion I received in a recent wreck.

However your attitude will probably stay with you for life.

 

[Changeling]

I'm not accusing Lapua of anything, it was a broad statement about companies

However since you brought it up, Jim has X number cases with problems and implied 3000 bullets with problems, have they tried to give him some service?
There is another guy on this forum that sent me a PM that he had 6000 bullets in his garage he couldn't use, have they helped him.?
I won't give his name because he didn’t give me permission to use it, I didn't think I would need to use it so I didn't ask for permission.

 

[Steve Blair]

My language quality will be fine when I get over the concussion I received in a recent wreck.

However your attitude will probably stay with you for life.

[br]
I certainly hope so. It has served me well. [br]
What a shame your wreck didn't knock some sense into you. Poor language use was a sidebar. The primary issue was defaming all companies under market pressure and calling it "FACT". Perhaps in your worldview abandonment of principles is the first resort. For many others, that is not even the last resort. It simply will never happen.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I'm not accusing Lapua of anything, it was a broad statement about companies

However since you brought it up, Jim has X number cases with problems and implied 3000 bullets with problems, have they tried to give him some service?
There is another guy on this forum that sent me a PM that he had 6000 bullets in his garage he couldn't use, have they helped him.?
I won't give his name because he didn’t give me permission to use it, I didn't think I would need to use it so I didn't ask for permission.

The question is, why are they contacting you and not the manufacturer?

6,000 bullets that can't be used? How did he check all 6,000 of them? Do they not shoot or does he simply think they will not shoot? Have him send me a PM and maybe I can help him, but the best contact would be Kevin Thomas... I'm just a shooter.

Changeling, since you are so certain that those 6,000 bullets that can't be used, would you be willing to go up against me in a high stakes LR F-Open match (both shooting 6mm's) if I use the "unusable" bullets? Let me know so I can order a 6mm barrel and I'll dust off my Dasher reamer and dies if you are up for it. Time to put your money where your mouth is! ;D

 

[johara1]

I don't want this to be a big deal, the number of bullets was stated above to be 500 6mm Lapua L's, Cases were an old issue years ago and i did contact Kevin Thomas…….. I wasn't going to sit on them so i tried annealing them before fire forming. it was so long ago i was still using the Hornady single case set up. now i'm on my second annealing machine. I think i was one of the first to anneal new brass. I have no issues with any mfg. of anything, we all make mistakes. I have made many…….. That same lot of brass that cracked the shoulder has set a lot of records….. you jus have to learn to dance with it……… jim

 

[B muzguy]

Changeling: My concern about the SMK's is their lack of consistancy when run through a bullet comparator. All bullets out of the same factory sealed box, and I can have differences of base to ogive length measurements of as much as .017". I have never had this problem with Bergers, so the Bergers are always used in the match's. SMK's are used for less demanding "work". I can open a new box of Bergers with a different lot number & nothing changes. Not the lengths or the seating die adjustment.

I've often said that I believe the reason for the differences is that bullets of the same lot# are made on different machines/ dies, then all funneled into one collection bin at the end of the line. Responses from those close to the industry hotly deny that any reputable manufacturer would ever do this, but when I then ask what is the cause of the differences, I'm met with silence, or am told that the differing lengths do not matter.

BS ! Bergers lots r different !

 

[rwj]

BS ! Bergers lots r different !

There have been many changes at Berger over the past 8 years…

 

[Fuj]

Winter brings out the Zombie threads......LOL

 

[perazziguy]

Winter brings out the Zombie threads......LOL

The gift that keeps on giving!

 

[Chiquita]

Ohh damn 8 years old.

 

[davidjoe]

Since 2014, there are new entrants in the 7mm LR match market, they are:

Newcomers:
Berger 184, 190, 195
SMK 183, 197
Hornady A-Tip line, possibly ELDM 180

Oldies:
In 2014 and going back much earlier, Berger, Lapua and Sierra all made 180 grain 7mm match bullets.

As of late 2022, shooting 7’s in Fclass the 180 Legacy bullets are probably 95% of the bullets shot at midrange and long range.

There are FOUR kinds of “paper” in this game, the kind that sets out why a bullet will fly a straighter path, the kind in front of the berm, the kind that has a name on it to hang on the wall, and the kind that we trade for more bullets.

I am not suggesting these companies stop trying to innovate, please do not misconstrue, but holy shot, have I ever bought a lot of good faith efforts to agg a higher score, than the pancaked lead that is being slowly shoved toward the backside of the berm from a decade ago; the bottom line is that the old stuff works, really, really well!