Why 6.5x47 vs other 6.5’s
- Thread starter Eloudamy
- Start date
I'll take a stab at it..
When they both came out Lapua brass was available for the 47L and its excellent. The Hornaday brass was so, so and because of that the 47L could be pushed harder, more consistantly. Therefore, more guys tooled up for 47L.
After all the ninjas started shooting 6.5CM and it was/is clearly hugely popular BUT is the advantage in boiler room enough to overcome buying new dies, brass and a reamer? It wasn't for me.
When they both came out Lapua brass was available for the 47L and its excellent. The Hornaday brass was so, so and because of that the 47L could be pushed harder, more consistantly. Therefore, more guys tooled up for 47L.
After all the ninjas started shooting 6.5CM and it was/is clearly hugely popular BUT is the advantage in boiler room enough to overcome buying new dies, brass and a reamer? It wasn't for me.
When you say "LR Shooting", what does that mean? Is it steel targets? Is it Benchrest? Is it F-Class? In PRS or "steel" shooting, from what I understand, you need to have your cartridge operate thru a magazine. Most choose a short action, thus necessitating a small case if you want to use LONG bullets. In Benchrest or F-Class, no such need exists. If it is steel shooting, a highly efficient, flat shooting, accurate round is mandatory. There are now "short actions" with larger magazine wells and various adaptations to accommodate longer bullets in this fast growing sport. Now that you have somewhat larger magazine wells and much better brass options, this opens the field to use other cartridges. Now that these options are available, you will see the field "iron out" in time.
Are you looking for a reason to avoid 6.5 Creedmoor?
6.5x47 was out earlier. It grabbed almost all of the 6.5mm short action market from the .260 and there were legitimate reasons why that happened.
When 6.5 Creedmoor came out, it had none of the issues of 260 in a short action, it was cheap compared to the guns and ammo in 6.5x47 and it shoots right with it, maybe better because it seems like 6.5x47 has to run higher pressure to get the same MV as 6.5 Creedmoor.
It's just cheese eating elitists looking down at 6.5 Creedmoor through their Schmidt and Bender scopes.
If you don't need to run with that crowd, 6.5 Creedmoor is the easy way out.
6.5x47 was out earlier. It grabbed almost all of the 6.5mm short action market from the .260 and there were legitimate reasons why that happened.
When 6.5 Creedmoor came out, it had none of the issues of 260 in a short action, it was cheap compared to the guns and ammo in 6.5x47 and it shoots right with it, maybe better because it seems like 6.5x47 has to run higher pressure to get the same MV as 6.5 Creedmoor.
It's just cheese eating elitists looking down at 6.5 Creedmoor through their Schmidt and Bender scopes.
If you don't need to run with that crowd, 6.5 Creedmoor is the easy way out.
Biggest plus for the Creedmoor is if you are not a reloader there is plenty of cheap ammo available. If you are a reloader it's pretty much a toss up between the two. The Creedmoor may get a little more speed and the 47L can be very easy to tune. I've had several barrels chambered for both.
If I were going to shoot strictly 140s or heavier I'd go with the Creedmoor and if I were going to shoot 130s or lighter I'd go with the 47L
If I were going to shoot strictly 140s or heavier I'd go with the Creedmoor and if I were going to shoot 130s or lighter I'd go with the 47L
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Do you have any Grey Poupon?
There is a lot more to performance than any single factor like MV, or even pure accuracy in itself.
The 6.5x47L capacity is perfect for 123-130gr bullets, which are well suited to 600yds. It's barrels and brass will live long enough for a shooter to reach and hold success.
[pure opinion here]:
The 6.5CM is not perfect for either 130 or ~140gr bullets. It's large for 130s, small for 140s.
Perfect for 140s is 260AI capacity.
If they keep going up in 26cal weight, beyond 140s, eventually they'll reach something the 6.5x284 would be suited for. Until then, it holds zero advantage and suffers poor accurate barrel life.
Smaller cases present less area, and can therefore handle higher pressures. And the further into diminished returns, the further into diminished variance of returns.
Faster powders, filling smaller cases, also burn up quicker and more consistently, while contributing to lower muzzle pressures, even with marginally short barrels.
Ask any competitive 6PPC shooter what kind of pressures they're running. I think you'll discover that it's extreme,, and yet viable in such a tiny case.
For longer range, the smallest case that reaches mid nodes(2950-3050) with reasonable barrel lengths(not too short or too long), given available fast/case filling powders, for at least SAAMI max, will rise to the top with long term performance.
So a 6Dasher beats 243Win (pretty much across the board).
The 6.5x47L capacity is perfect for 123-130gr bullets, which are well suited to 600yds. It's barrels and brass will live long enough for a shooter to reach and hold success.
[pure opinion here]:
The 6.5CM is not perfect for either 130 or ~140gr bullets. It's large for 130s, small for 140s.
Perfect for 140s is 260AI capacity.
If they keep going up in 26cal weight, beyond 140s, eventually they'll reach something the 6.5x284 would be suited for. Until then, it holds zero advantage and suffers poor accurate barrel life.
Smaller cases present less area, and can therefore handle higher pressures. And the further into diminished returns, the further into diminished variance of returns.
Faster powders, filling smaller cases, also burn up quicker and more consistently, while contributing to lower muzzle pressures, even with marginally short barrels.
Ask any competitive 6PPC shooter what kind of pressures they're running. I think you'll discover that it's extreme,, and yet viable in such a tiny case.
For longer range, the smallest case that reaches mid nodes(2950-3050) with reasonable barrel lengths(not too short or too long), given available fast/case filling powders, for at least SAAMI max, will rise to the top with long term performance.
So a 6Dasher beats 243Win (pretty much across the board).
I would do the creed. I have a 6x47l and a 6 creed and the 6.5x47l and like has been said they are about a wash. But the brass is much less expensive for the creed and there are more than one maker for the brass and off the shelf ammo is readily available. And lapua is now making brass for the creed now which would make the lapua round even less desirable for me. And that is coming from a guy who has done nothing but praise that lapua round for quite a few years!!!
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
I keep a spreadsheet of various small and medium rifle cartridges.
The 6BR/BRA/Dasher crowd generates 65-ish ft-lb per grain of powder charge. I don't think this is an agreed calculation, but on my spreadsheet it's labeled "combustion efficiency".
The 6x47 Lapua generates about the same as the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is mid-fifties ft-lb/grain. The 6 CM is between 50 and 55.
I see value in this "combustion efficiency" because it contributes directly to recoil energy and barrel life. That said, it probably skews favorably to loads developed on heavy-duty Lapua brass and custom actions, where chamber pressures go higher and muzzle energy is maximized. So I use it as a very general guideline and take care to not compare "match" loads with loading guide loads.
The other reality is that match shooters don't change calibers for the fun of it, and all of the reports about Creedmoor accuracy are with factory ammo. Accuracy with factory ammo is barely more relevant to hand loaded accuracy than the color of the stock. We're just now beginning to see that CM can compete with (but is not beating) the traditional long range accuracy calibers.
The only advantage that 6.5 Creedmoor has is factory ammo. If your going to load your own, then pick one. I have a 6.5x47L and two 260 Rem. Two of them are single load target rifles that easily shoot high master scores. One 260 is a hunting rifle that shoots great with a mag length jump.
Very well said!
One of the reasons for the popularity of the 6.5x47 over the CM was that the Lapua had a small rifle primer & the CM had a large rifle primer. The Lapua brass with the srp lasted longer. Now that Lapua makes CM brass with a srp it is a moot point. When I built my 6.5x47 I had intended to go with a CM but the brass is what swayed me. I think I could be happy with either, but will stick with the 6.5x47 since i have an ample supply of brass & several good loads. I personally don't think there is enough performance difference to say one is better, pretty much a Chevy vs Ford issue.
I liked the 6.5 Creedmoor because brass was everywhere. If we had a shortage again I was going to have better luck with the CM than any other 6.5. I shoot NRA/CMP long range from a sling. My 140’s are at 2880 fps and 150’s SMK at 2790 fps. It shoots well enough a friend went to the same set up when his 6.5-284 barrel was toast.
I make my decision based on wind drift, recoil, and barrel life. The estimated 2500 rounds with mild recoil and pretty good wind drift is how I got here.
I make my decision based on wind drift, recoil, and barrel life. The estimated 2500 rounds with mild recoil and pretty good wind drift is how I got here.
6.5 Creedmore;
Okay brass
High Quality factory ammo for $25.00 per 20
Better barrel life than a .260
Factory ammunition more readily available than 6.5x47
No ballistic edge on .260 or 6.5x47
6.5x47
Excellent brass
High guality factory ammunition for $65.00 per 20
Factory ammunition sparse
Better barrel life than a 6.5 Creedmore
Uses less powder
You will not see a difference in ballistics between the 2. I have a 6.5x47 for my match, comp rifle, and a 6.5 Creedmore for my hunting rig. The deciding factor for choosing the Creedmore for my hunting rig was the availability if factory ammunition, and when i lose a piece if brass it doesn't bother me. If for some reason I went on a hunting trip and forgot my ammo, I would be more likely to find the Creedmore ammo at the gun store than I would Lapua ammo.
Okay brass
High Quality factory ammo for $25.00 per 20
Better barrel life than a .260
Factory ammunition more readily available than 6.5x47
No ballistic edge on .260 or 6.5x47
6.5x47
Excellent brass
High guality factory ammunition for $65.00 per 20
Factory ammunition sparse
Better barrel life than a 6.5 Creedmore
Uses less powder
You will not see a difference in ballistics between the 2. I have a 6.5x47 for my match, comp rifle, and a 6.5 Creedmore for my hunting rig. The deciding factor for choosing the Creedmore for my hunting rig was the availability if factory ammunition, and when i lose a piece if brass it doesn't bother me. If for some reason I went on a hunting trip and forgot my ammo, I would be more likely to find the Creedmore ammo at the gun store than I would Lapua ammo.
Retired Grunt
F Open Shooter
I started with a 6.5 CM Savage Axis, dropped it to a MDT LSS Chassis and l loved it. I was a Service rifle guy, M1A and M16 A1 & A2. The Axis was my first Center Fire Bolt Action. Because of my Disability I struggle with CMP & High Power but wanted to shoot and be around like minded shooters. My wife made me buy a Savage 12 in 6.5 CM for F Class, and I am busy learning new skills. I stuck with the 6.5 because I already had the Dies and Brass and was learning to reload (Much of it learned here). One Day I will progress to one of the other 6.5's or a 6 Dasher, or back to a .308 which I have more experience. My goal is to improve in each match, and next year upgrade my scope and try 1000 yards up at Atterbury. Thanks for all of your postings and input, I am an avid reader and usually just a Lurker when it comes to posting.
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