Who's .17 barrel ??
- Thread starter Hal
- Start date
Hal--There are lots of barrel manufacturers who make great .172 caliber barrels, but I concur with Johnmyers about Lilja. I have had several top-notch gunsmiths say that Lilja makes one of the best .172 caliber barrels around.
Lilja usually has the Remington 700 Varmint contour .17 Rem barrels in stock on their shelf so you get very quick turn around time when you order one. The last Rem 700 Varmint contour barrel I ordered took only 4 days from the time I placed the order until it was delivered to my door.
If you are going to shoot the 30 gr. bullets, you would be best served if you buy a 1-9" twist.
I have also used super match grade Pac-Nor barrels on my .172 caliber rifles and like them too. You can get the 3-groove barrels from Pac-Nor, but not from Lilja. The Lilja barrels cost somewhat less than the Pac-Nors.
Lilja usually has the Remington 700 Varmint contour .17 Rem barrels in stock on their shelf so you get very quick turn around time when you order one. The last Rem 700 Varmint contour barrel I ordered took only 4 days from the time I placed the order until it was delivered to my door.
If you are going to shoot the 30 gr. bullets, you would be best served if you buy a 1-9" twist.
I have also used super match grade Pac-Nor barrels on my .172 caliber rifles and like them too. You can get the 3-groove barrels from Pac-Nor, but not from Lilja. The Lilja barrels cost somewhat less than the Pac-Nors.
WD
k80skeet
Silver $$ Contributor
If I was going to buy a new barrel. It wouldn't Be a Lilja. I believe I would go with a Krieger nobody ever has anything bad to say about them. Myself I have not have great luck with Lilja barrels and that is all I will say. I buy 8 to 10 new barrels a year and every one is going to make a bad one now and then. Krieger will stand behind there barrels and will make sure you are happy. That can not be said for all barrel makers. Lilja does not from personal experince. I expect some others don't either.
I don't own a .17 myself, but have heard good things about the 3 groove Pac-Nor's in .17 from a few guys who use them for coyote hunting. Of the 3 guys I know who use .17's, 2 have been using Pac-Nor barrels for a few years and switched from Lilja once one tried a Pac-Nor after getting a Lilja that fouled badly. The third is still using Lilja barrels.
They say the Pac-Nors do seem to be able to go longer before needing to be cleaned, and they can push the 3 groove very hard without getting blow-outs as well. They all use .17 Remington, so they can really get those little bullets screaming if they want to.
I have shot with all 3 of them at the range, and all their rifles are very accurate. I don't think in their case you could tell the difference on target between the Lilja and the Pac-Nor's.
They go through a few barrels between the three of them, and the guys using Pac-Nor's have yet to see a bad one after about a dozen. Though the Lilja guy will tell you the same about lilja.
Either way, Lilja or Pac-Nor, I don't think you could really go wrong. I would take either after seeing how well they shoot.
Again, these are not my rifles, though I have seen them shoot many times and I am very familiar with them as they are owned by three of my friends.
Kenny
They say the Pac-Nors do seem to be able to go longer before needing to be cleaned, and they can push the 3 groove very hard without getting blow-outs as well. They all use .17 Remington, so they can really get those little bullets screaming if they want to.
I have shot with all 3 of them at the range, and all their rifles are very accurate. I don't think in their case you could tell the difference on target between the Lilja and the Pac-Nor's.
They go through a few barrels between the three of them, and the guys using Pac-Nor's have yet to see a bad one after about a dozen. Though the Lilja guy will tell you the same about lilja.
Either way, Lilja or Pac-Nor, I don't think you could really go wrong. I would take either after seeing how well they shoot.
Again, these are not my rifles, though I have seen them shoot many times and I am very familiar with them as they are owned by three of my friends.
Kenny
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
k80skeet said:
While I won't knock a Krieger, my understanding is that the cut rifle process is not ideal for smaller bores (.17's and .20's) as it is very difficult to make them and there can be a high amount of scrapped product getting a good one. That is the reason why you will pay close to $400 for a Krieger or Bartlein blank for the small calibers.
I would typically stay with a button rifled barrel in the 17's. From personal experience I know Pac Nor absolutely stands behind their barrels as I had an issue and they stepped right up to the plate and replaced the barrel for me. We use their 3 groove 20's on many of the 20 Practical AR's we make and they have been great shooters. I also have used their 5 groove .17's (although the 3 grooves look great too) for some 17 Tactical AR-15 build ups and they have been excellent shooters too.
Robert Whitley
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
I've had several 'big' .17's built with custom barrels....Liljas, PacNors and Shilens. Had great luck with all of them.
An important thing in these big .17's is the ratio of land width to groove depth. It would for sure be a buttoned barrel over a cut rifled barrel, regardless of the maker, for sure.....another subtle nuance of the .17's, at least in my experience.
If I was going to build another one, I'd opt another Lilja.
Chamber neck dimensions can make or break these .17 Rems, as we experimented quite a bit with that. Big neck clearances are accuracy killers...make sure the reamer you use is dimensioned to currently available brass, as the SAMMI spec'd .17 Rem. reamers of old are 'way out of the ballpark.
Hope this helps. -Al
An important thing in these big .17's is the ratio of land width to groove depth. It would for sure be a buttoned barrel over a cut rifled barrel, regardless of the maker, for sure.....another subtle nuance of the .17's, at least in my experience.
If I was going to build another one, I'd opt another Lilja.
Chamber neck dimensions can make or break these .17 Rems, as we experimented quite a bit with that. Big neck clearances are accuracy killers...make sure the reamer you use is dimensioned to currently available brass, as the SAMMI spec'd .17 Rem. reamers of old are 'way out of the ballpark.
Hope this helps. -Al
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
With currently available 17 Rem. brass, a seated round will measure .193-.194 over the bullet. The reamer we had the best luck with was a .196 neck and standard SAMMI body dimensions of .376 at the back and .356 at the front. The 'standard' SAMMI chamber calls for a .199 or .200 neck, but most reamers are a bit more generous than that....going from memory here.
Best bet is to talk with Dave Kiff at Pacific and let him help you with exact specs before you order a reamer. A piloted reamer is a must, as well as a good asst. of pilot sizes for the best fit in a particular barrel.
I had both 9 and 10 twist barrels and really never saw any accuracy differences between them. The 9's do give you some options for the heavier 30 gr. bullets like the Kindler Gold, though. I used primarily the Berger 'target' 25 gr. bullets and later on, the Hornady 20 gr. VMaxes. The little 20 gr. VMaxes aren't the 'balance' for a case of this capacity, but the accuracy was great and the 4,300 velocity was helpful for flattening out the trajectory on long-ish shots on fox. With a 200 yd. zero, there were only two holds needed out to about 325 yds...either dead center or 1" below top of the fur line past 250 yds.
Another bullet that worked well was the original Remington 25 gr. They were actually a plated bullet rather than a cup and core design and were a bit 'harder'...working better on coyotes than on fox.
At present, I don't have a big .17, but do get the urge to do another from time to time. I'd follow this exact blueprint for another build, but this time I'd go with a much lighter setup than I used to run....more of a 'mountain rifle' rig. Something around 7lbs. all up with a Remington Magnum Sporter barrel profile or a Lilja #2 in a McMillan Sako Hunter or Mountain Rifle stock topped with Talley LW rings and a lightweight variable that topped out at 12-14X would be pretty nice....or even a fixed power 6X or 12X Leupold.
I've got an action lying around, a couple of scopes, dies, cleaning rods, bore guide...just need to get a stock and barrel ordered.... ;D
Best bet is to talk with Dave Kiff at Pacific and let him help you with exact specs before you order a reamer. A piloted reamer is a must, as well as a good asst. of pilot sizes for the best fit in a particular barrel.
I had both 9 and 10 twist barrels and really never saw any accuracy differences between them. The 9's do give you some options for the heavier 30 gr. bullets like the Kindler Gold, though. I used primarily the Berger 'target' 25 gr. bullets and later on, the Hornady 20 gr. VMaxes. The little 20 gr. VMaxes aren't the 'balance' for a case of this capacity, but the accuracy was great and the 4,300 velocity was helpful for flattening out the trajectory on long-ish shots on fox. With a 200 yd. zero, there were only two holds needed out to about 325 yds...either dead center or 1" below top of the fur line past 250 yds.
Another bullet that worked well was the original Remington 25 gr. They were actually a plated bullet rather than a cup and core design and were a bit 'harder'...working better on coyotes than on fox.
At present, I don't have a big .17, but do get the urge to do another from time to time. I'd follow this exact blueprint for another build, but this time I'd go with a much lighter setup than I used to run....more of a 'mountain rifle' rig. Something around 7lbs. all up with a Remington Magnum Sporter barrel profile or a Lilja #2 in a McMillan Sako Hunter or Mountain Rifle stock topped with Talley LW rings and a lightweight variable that topped out at 12-14X would be pretty nice....or even a fixed power 6X or 12X Leupold.
I've got an action lying around, a couple of scopes, dies, cleaning rods, bore guide...just need to get a stock and barrel ordered.... ;D
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