Whidden "click" Dies

[Mark M.]

I was watching some reloading videos and came across a video on the Whidden click die, it's a adjustable die for Precisely bumping the shoulder as little as .001 at a time, I thought it looked interesting, Was wondering befour I sent 121.00 for one to see if anybody here had any real experience with these and what you think of them, thanks for your time.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The lock ring has precise clicks and works well to set up fast. So you dont have to try and lock a regular ring down 5 times to get it where you want it. Very good design

 

[TerryH]

Agree with everything Dusty said. I have the click die and it works great. Very cool design. It's one of those "Why doesn't every one make them this way?" deals.

 

[jepp2]

There are many ways to make minor adjustments to your sizing die. I have Skip's shims, I have a set of Redding Competition shell holders (in 0.002" increments). But you know what I find most useful and works best for me - the O ring. And I am not criticizing the click dies in any manner.

I don't have to have the die lock ring secured to the sizing die body, and I just line up the mark on the die with the same point on the Redding press insert. I have no problems returning to the same exact die position after removing and reinstalling the die, the die and lock ring never move, and I can make adjustments of 0.0005" on my case head to datum length with no problem. By compressing the O-ring with the die lock ring, everything just stays in place. It is almost like the Lee die lock rings with O-rings, which I hated when I first used them. In the picture, the die is several turns up, just so you can see how easy this method is.

 

[PatMiles]

I had Whidden make a custom die for my 6.5 CM. While talking with John regarding the neck diameter I wanted in the die he mentioned the click adjustment feature offered. I sprung for it. In retrospect, I should not have. Don't get me wrong, it works damn near perfectly but once you have a die set, how many times are you going to change it?
The die itself is dead nuts on so I am working the brass to the bare minimum. Money well spent for the custom die itself.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I had Whidden make a custom die for my 6.5 CM. While talking with John regarding the neck diameter I wanted in the die he mentioned the click adjustment feature offered. I sprung for it. In retrospect, I should not have. Don't get me wrong, it works damn near perfectly but once you have a die set, how many times are you going to change it?
The die itself is dead nuts on so I am working the brass to the bare minimum. Money well spent for the custom die itself.

You have to (need to) adjust a die many times whether its for aging brass or different lots. Just going with what you had set last time works but is not perfect

 

[dsculley]

I don't understand why "just going with what you had last time" is not perfect. My die is set to size the brass for .002" clearance on the shoulder. When I measure the brass after sizing, it is all the same size whether it is new or has multiple firings. Why do I need to change the setting on my sizing die based on the age or lot of brass?

 

[kneedtospeed]

These are Nice, and work really well, from Pat @ PMA Tool .
http://www.pmatool.com/pma-micro-die-adjuster-w-thumb-screw-upgrade/

 

[fguffey]

New

I don't understand why "just going with what you had last time" is not perfect

I measure the height of the die above the press, it is nothing for me to lower the die to shorten the case between the shoulder and case head; the same when increasing the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. And then there is that thing with securing the lock ring to the die; I don't, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring, I am not afraid of loosing my place.

F. Guffey

 

[Linko]

If you are buying a new sizing die, why not buy the Whidden adjustable.

There are many very talented reloaders here, for them buying another die most likely doesn't make sense. They have already developed a process that works for them.

Me, I just started loading a new to me caliber, so I ordered a click adjustable bushing die from John.

 

[PatMiles]

You have to (need to) adjust a die many times whether its for aging brass or different lots. Just going with what you had set last time works but is not perfect

I understand that I can't set my die once and leave it there forever, my point is that I can adjust a locking ring as well as I can a click type adjustable. One other drawback to the Whidden style is that with no marked or numbered graduations it's a hard for repeatability. This is where the PMA is superior IMHO.
Don't get me wrong, I like Whidden dies.

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't understand why "just going with what you had last time" is not perfect. My die is set to size the brass for .002" clearance on the shoulder. When I measure the brass after sizing, it is all the same size whether it is new or has multiple firings. Why do I need to change the setting on my sizing die based on the age or lot of brass?

The more times the brass is fired and sized it gets harder. Now it resists sizing and springs back. The measurements should not stay the same.

Years ago, I shot this set of match brass a few times. I decided I was going to try annealing. I annealed them and when I sized them, the shoulder bump was .005 more with the same die setting. They were soft and now didn't resist the sizing. For my match brass I now anneal every firing. Matt

 

[jimmymac]

I don't understand why "just going with what you had last time" is not perfect. My die is set to size the brass for .002" clearance on the shoulder. When I measure the brass after sizing, it is all the same size whether it is new or has multiple firings. Why do I need to change the setting on my sizing die based on the age or lot of brass?

It's not perfect because as the brass work hardens from multiple firings the spring back is different than brass that has been fired less. For instance, I have one lot of cases that have been fired 12 times and another lot that have been fired only 3 times. These lots will not size to the same shoulder bump clearance that I'm looking for unless I add or subtract shims.

I never adjust my locking ring because the adjustment is way too course. Once that thing is locked down it just stays there. Die shims or the PMA tool is the right approach for me for those small adjustments I'm looking for to obtain consistent sizing between lots of brass. YMMV

 

[jimmymac]

The more times the brass is fired and sized it gets harder. Now it resists sizing and springs back. The measurements should not stay the same.

Years ago, I shot this set of match brass a few times. I decided I was going to try annealing. I annealed them and when I sized them, the shoulder bump was .005 more with the same die setting. They were soft and now didn't resist the sizing. For my match brass I now anneal every firing. Matt

Agreed. Was posting at the same time as you. Thanks.

 

[fguffey]

Why do I need to change the setting on my sizing die based on the age or lot of brass?

If you do not hear it from me you do not hear it. The case has a resistance to sizing, some cases have more resistance to sizing than other cases. When I want to know if my case has more resistance to sizing than my press can overcome I measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder. When the die does not make it down to the shell holder when sizing I lower the die to increase the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.

In the perfect world we all use new cases, after that we anneal. I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring.

And then? There were all of those reloaders in the old days that locked the ring to the die: In the old days reloaders had bad habits, not all. When the 357 Magnum dies became available reloaders formed long lines when purchasing. The lines would have been longer but a very few of us loaded the 357 Magnum with 38 Special dies because the 38 Special die set would load both the 357 Magnum and the 38 Special, all we had to do was adjust the seating die for the crimp, the other reloaders? When the 44 Remington mag die set became available they purchased the 44 Remington Mag die set even though it was not necessary because the 44 Special die set would load the 44 Remington Mag case.

And then? A few years later RCBS added a washer/spacer for reloaders that insisted on locking the lock ring to the die and were afraid of loosing their place.

F. Guffey

 

[GSPV]

I don't understand why "just going with what you had last time" is not perfect. My die is set to size the brass for .002" clearance on the shoulder. When I measure the brass after sizing, it is all the same size whether it is new or has multiple firings. Why do I need to change the setting on my sizing die based on the age or lot of brass?

Work hardening of the brass.

 

[GSPV]

If you do not hear it from me you do not hear it.

All that, and humble too.

 

[dmoran]

If you do not hear it from me you do not hear it.

​

 

[fguffey]

I understand that I can't set my die once and leave it there forever, my point is that I can adjust a locking ring as well as I can a click type adjustable. One other drawback to the Whidden style is that with no marked or numbered graduations it's a hard for repeatability. This is where the PMA is superior IMHO.
Don't get me wrong, I like Whidden dies.

Let us say there are 5 different dies with 5 different methods and or techniques for adjustment and returning the die to the last setting: I am the fan of verifying, if I want to know if the die has been returned to the last setting I measure the height of the die above the press; I also understand if I did not measure the height of the die above the press the last time I adjusted the die I am out of luck.

And then there are degree wheels, some are made of paper, If I want to verify the adjustment I measure the height of the die above the press and I measure again after securing the die to the press.

I understand the threads on the die and press are 14 per inch, that is close to .071" plus per thread, a reloader could attach a degree wheel to the top of the press, after adding the degree wheel he could check his work in degrees and then convert the degrees to thousandths or he could go straight to measuring the height of the die above the press. After that he could think about it for years and then make a dial indicator holder, I made one of those back in the late '70s.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

And then? A few years later RCBS added a washer/spacer for reloaders that insisted on locking the lock ring to the die and were afraid of loosing their place.

In the old days there were reloaders that had 4 different die sets for loading the 38 Special and 357 Magnumm had they gotten into the habit of adjusting their dies they would have only needed one set, and then? Progressive presses; on a progressive press the number one position is used to size and punch primers, later they added the carbide ring and then even then the die was not tapped for the primer punch. The primer punch was an integral part of the expander die.

F. Guffey