Which gas for annealing

[andybrock]

I'm just starting to anneal my cases using the socket and drill method. I've been using propane in the torch but do you think I get better results if I used MAPP gas?
Thanks

 

[Martin52]

I'm just starting to anneal my cases using the socket and drill method. I've been using propane in the torch but do you think I get better results if I used MAPP gas?
Thanks

Both types can be used, MAPP gas will heat the case neck slightly faster than regular propane. My .308 Lapua case necks are getting 6 seconds annealing time with MAPP gas. Probably more important, especially when using the drill and socket method is consistency in technique.

Martin

 

[CatShooter]

What Martin said... just get it down to a routine

 

[lpreddick]

Not to hijack...I use the socket/ drill and propane also. What to do with the HOT annealed brass? I put them on one of those freezer packs. Mine are flat and measure 6 inches square. When the socket gets hot, remove it and place on cold pack.

 

[JRS]

What Martin said... just get it down to a reutene

+1 I think you'll find MAPP gas, which actually isn't MAPP gas, but LPG, to be more expensive than propane.

 

[spclark]

I've been using propane in the torch but do you think I get better results if I used MAPP gas?

I doubt it. What's marketed to consumers now as MAPP burns hotter & costs more than propane. If you have the torch to use it, oxy-acetylene'd work too if you're fast enough to avoid melting cases.... Time + temperature's the key formula; manually processing cases requires a time interval that gives you opportunity to react.

As for cooling? I use the drill+socket method, dropping processed cases into a NECO sieve for air cooling. A piece of 1/4x1/4 hardware cloth'd work, propped up on a 2x frame, or aluminum window screen. Anything that withstands moderate heat yet allows air to curculate freely.

 

[Shynloco]

Not to beat this topic to a pulp, but I've found using an electric screwdriver is actually better as the turning speed is slower than a drill and easier to control to get an even "burn" all the way around. Works for me.

Alex

 

[snakepit]

Not to beat this topic to a pulp, but I've found using an electric screwdriver is actually better as the turning speed is slower than a drill and easier to control to get an even "burn" all the way around. Works for me.

Alex

+1 on the electric screwdriver. Slower speed and easier to hold than a drill.

 

[andybrock]

Not to beat this topic to a pulp, but I've found using an electric screwdriver is actually better as the turning speed is slower than a drill and easier to control to get an even "burn" all the way around. Works for me.

Alex

I Like this idea, my battery drill is a big heavy lump and it is difficult to keep in the same place.
Is it a multi angle screwdriver you use or a 90 degree one?

 

[CatShooter]

Not to beat this topic to a pulp, but I've found using an electric screwdriver is actually better as the turning speed is slower than a drill and easier to control to get an even "burn" all the way around. Works for me.

Alex

Me too...

During my last annealing session of 250 pcs of 20x45x30°, the damn battery crapped out and I had ~15 cases to go, and I couldn't wait forever for the bats to recharge.

So I used a 1/4" hand drill - I got them finished, but I'll never use a 1/4" drill again!!

I need to hard wire the driver to the AC connection - I don't need the battery in it cuz it lives at the loading bench.

 

[Road_Clam]

I Like this idea, my battery drill is a big heavy lump and it is difficult to keep in the same place.
Is it a multi angle screwdriver you use or a 90 degree one?

I get my cordless drill height all set up so I can rest the bottom of the drill on a thick wood block (I use a piece of 4x6) and the casing will contact the flame. So in one easy motion, I load the casing, swing it into the heat source, then a quick motion dump the brass into a steel bucket to cool. No arm fatigue doing it this way as i'm not actually supporting the drill, i'm just gripping the handle and working the speed. MAPP gas is simply propane with some added Acetelyne for a hotter flame..

 

[Patch700]

What Martin said... just get it down to a reutene

Apologies to the original poster for the hi jack but I would like to ask CatShooter his opinion on what was briefly touched on earlier with regards to what happens to the brass once it is annealed to the desired amount.. I know some people like to drop the hot brass into water or some type of cooling scenario that is much faster than ambient cooling.

Would you say that in essence this is not hardening to a degree the brass which you've just tried to stress relieve? Knowing what happens to certain metals when they are heated and then rapidly cooled generally makes them brittle , would this not apply to annealing brass?

Normally I just let them lay on a surface to kool to ambient temp on their own... Thoughts?

 

[CatShooter]

What Martin said... just get it down to a routine

Apologies to the original poster for the hi jack but I would like to ask CatShooter his opinion on what was briefly touched on earlier with regards to what happens to the brass once it is annealed to the desired amount.. I know some people like to drop the hot brass into water or some type of cooling scenario that is much faster than ambient cooling.

Would you say that in essence this is not hardening to a degree the brass which you've just tried to stress relieve? Knowing what happens to certain metals when they are heated and then rapidly cooled generally makes them brittle , would this not apply to annealing brass?

Normally I just let them lay on a surface to kool to ambient temp on their own... Thoughts?

Unlike Steel, Brass does not change it's hardness when dropped in water. You just wind up having to dry the cases.

I lay out a small hand towel on the bench - then two layers of crumpled aluminum foil (to keet the towel from being burned)... then I drop the hot cases on the aluminum foil and let them cool. I do about 225 cases an hour, and often will do annealing for two or three hours, so the whole thing has to be easy, without fuss.

 

[Brians356]

Personally, I use butane. Takes a little longer, e.g. 12 seconds for 223 Rem.

 

[dixieppc]

Personally, I use butane. Takes a little longer, e.g. 12 seconds for 223 Rem.

Brian, it is my understanding that you would want to reach annealing temperature as quickly as possible in order to keep the heat from migrating down the case body. In other words, the longer it takes you to get the neck of your case to annealing temperature, the hotter the body of the case gets and the further down the body of the case your anneal line can go.

Regards.....

 

[eric n]

I've used mapp and propane, just a bit quicker with mapp.
I use a small cordless screwdriver as well.
Depending on the background , I sometimes lose sight of the flame so I put a string with a loop at each end over the driver and torch head to keep the same distance.
Man.... I need a real annealer!

 

[Wingzero]

Apology to the OP.
Do you paint Tempilaq on every case. Thank you.

 

[Brians356]

Personally, I use butane. Takes a little longer, e.g. 12 seconds for 223 Rem.

Brian, it is my understanding that you would want to reach annealing temperature as quickly as possible in order to keep the heat from migrating down the case body. In other words, the longer it takes you to get the neck of your case to annealing temperature, the hotter the body of the case gets and the further down the body of the case your anneal line can go.

Regards.....

Not a problem. I determined the timing using 475f Temilaq just below the shoulder/body junction, now I just count seconds using a metronome, and rotate the case using a Lee locking stud and an electric screwdriver. The difference between, say, 6 seconds and 12, with flame applied only to the neck, is never going to overheat the lower part of the case. And, if anything, the extra time makes the cutoff decision less critical.

 

[andybrock]

No need to apologise folks, they are all relevant questions! Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

[Martin52]

Apology to the OP.
Do you paint Tempilaq on every case. Thank you.

Not necessary, and if you do it's a PITA to remove. Practice with Tempilaq on cleaned range brass until you get the timing right. Then simply anneal your normal brass (without Tempilaq) to this time limit, I use a large face timer.

Martin