Which dies for 6BR ?

[claysshotgunner]

I am new to this long range shooting and am in the process og building a rifle for it. It will be in the 6BR Norma.

This will not, at least at first, be a very , very intense hobby for me. Will probably grow on me tho.

Anyway, I need to decide what dies I need for this. I need to keep expense down for a while. So, what are the best and cheapest dies I need to get? lol

Any thoughts?

 

[RonAKA]

I'm using the Forster Bump/Bushing die for sizing, and the Forster Ultra Seating die. The sizing die works just fine. I have older cardboard box Lapua brass and the .267 bushing is just right. You may get away with the .267 with the newer blue plastic box packaged Lapua, or may need the .266. I size about 2/3'rds of the neck and bump the shoulder 0.001".

The Ultra seating die works well too. I like the ability to record bullet seating positions and switch between bullets without having to set up each time from scratch. The vernier scale used can require some mental gymnastics depending on how you set it up. It also can be a bit hard to read in dimmer light. Other than that, I can highly recommend both dies. Later you may need a FL sizing die, but you can put that off for a while.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/sid=70171/sku/FORSTER_Ultra_Bullet_Seater__6mm_BR_Rem

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/sid=69704/sku/Forster_Bushing_Bump_Die__6mm_BR_Rem

 

[BoydAllen]

Ron,
What kind of pressure are you shooting? The reason that I ask is that most high pressure loads require the diameter of the case body to be reduced at some point, and bump dies don't do this.

 

[dreever]

I use the Redding Competition bushing 3 die set. They have a micrometer neck sizer and seater and include a body die. Yes they are expensive but have served me well over the years.
It always comes back to "Buy once, Cry once". When I first started I didn't understand the reasoning behind this. After many $$$$$$ and aggrevations I finally realized those telling me this were right all along and I found that in the long run it would have been less expensive if I had followed that advice.

Danny

 

[expiper]

Get Redding

I dont use the competition set like Danny but the "regular" full length type "S" ...it doesnt have (or need) all the adjustments of the comp set ,,,im not disagreeing with Danny just giving other options.,,,he is rite about the $$$ tooo...the theory that you can bump em for a while then resize is telling you to bump em for a while then "when needed" full length...then you have som that are full length sized and some that arent ,and some that need it and some that dont ....just size the same every time with a die that makes the brass fit your chamber and think about the wind falags ,,not is this one tite or loose or needin sized.....this is one reason to get your reamer from Dave Kiff....his reamer dims. are in concert with Redding resize dims.....Roger

 

[RonAKA]

Ron,
What kind of pressure are you shooting? The reason that I ask is that most high pressure loads require the diameter of the case body to be reduced at some point, and bump dies don't do this.

My most accurate load to date has 33.4 grains of Varget behind a 68 grain. According to Hodgdon data pressure should be around 50,000 CUP (their suggested max). I've shot a few test rounds up to 34.8, so will be a bit higher still. No signs though of any excess pressure.

I have two boxes of brass from the same lot. The plan is to shoot one box until I have issues, and then get a full length die to size them all. I have the other box to use if I get surprised as to when that happens.

I have a factory Savage chamber and my preference is that I use my chamber to size the cases rather than have them undersized by a standard FL die. Don't have the luxury of a custom chamber and a custom die to fit.

 

[skeetlee]

Go with the hornady or forster Full Length die set with the seater and you will be fine, until you really get hooked!! LOL!! really, you cant go wrong with the forster die. They size the case a bit to much for me, but they will work really well non the less!! Good luck and ENJOY!!! Lee

 

[camac]

One of the cheapest and amongst the best options would be Forster FL die set as mentioned above. With Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater. As Lee mentioned they do size case a bit much for most rifles but really the simple and easy part that makes the most difference is to ask for neck to be ground out to the right diameter. Send some cases back to them with die and they will sort it for you. This cheap easy system will get you loading fairly straight and easily and close to custom dies.

 

[Steave]

I like Redding dies. I generally buy the Redding Deluxe Die set, which includes a FL size die, a neck size die and a seater die; I always also buy a Redding Competition Seater die.

I've yet to try the Redding Competition Type-S neck size die, but probably should.

 

[RonAKA]

I believe the Redding dies cost a fair bit more than Forster. Those that buy Redding, what do you see better with the Redding? I know the seater die scale is easier to read, but is that it? Redding also has optional special hard bushings at extra cost. However these bushings can be fitted to a Forster, if you want to go that way.

 

[Fordnutter]

I normally use a Wilson Neck die & straight line seater in my arbour press for loading my 6BR ammo & when it gets tight to chamber full length size in a Redding S type full length die. Worked great in my 6BR & just as good in my 6BRX now.

 

[JMC]

OUCH Lynn,

Why don't you tell us what you really think. Maybe a jar of lubricant will make it feel better.

John

 

[Lindy]

For what it's worth, my 2 cents. I have custom dies, Redding competition dies and Forster. Since I started using my first Forster Comp Seater it's all I want to use. And I just discovered that if you send the Forster FL die to the factory they will open up the neck to any dimension you specify for $12. Also, the location of the expander ball on the Forster FL die is a stroke of genius.

 

[JRS]

Lynn did you try sending the die back to Al and Dan? : My experience along with everyone else I know who has dealt with WTC has been nothing short of exemplary. Al enjoys a well deserved reputation, along with being the best gunsmith in the country. I believe packing-up the die and sending it back would be your best bet.

Rich

 

[warner]

Lynn-
Normally, I do not prefer to take matters public, but since you were so quick to condemn us and our products, here I am. Even the best smiths can have 'rough' chambers. I certainly point no fingers, but marks on brass are the tell tale signs. Yours were evident of such. While sizing brass properly is important, it does not facilitate smooth bolt lift. That is a function of a smooth chamber and functional primary extraction. The brass is expanded to the chamber size at that point, beyond the size if the die.
Regardless, your die sized your brass before it left our shop, or it would not have left in the first place, period. If you are having problems setting up or using it in any way, we are happy to guide you through any difficulty you might be having. We regret that you did not call us sooner, as the frustration may have been avoided.
If it is all hype, then why do we have so many happy customers? You are the first person I have ever heard of that requires 3 chamber reamers to accomplish the job of one proper one.
We stand behind our products, 100%. If you want to send it back, we'll buy it back from you, assuming it is in working order. Should you like to come attempt to "shove were only a doctor could remove it", feel free to come and give it a try; we welcome that opportunity too.

Dan Warner
Warner Tool Company, Inc.

 

[JHardy]

Lynn:

You and I have corresponded on other boards and I respect your knowledge and shooting. And, I know what it is like to be frustrated with shooting gear and/or the smith you trusted -- that is why nobody touches my metal work but Al and Dan Warner. I have had the pleasure of calling some of the very best smiths in the world my friends. Al and Dan are at the top of that list -- they are like family to me. They treated me with great work everytime they touched my rifle --unconditionally -- and before they were paid. I have never had a gun chambered by Al Warner that copper fouled even one round. His chambers and crowns are like glass. He has given me a call telling me he had "fixed" issues that no one had seen -- and he did the little things because he would not let the gun out of his shop unless it was perfect. Al never charged me a $ for any of the extra work.

Ok, so what does this mean. It means that in my eyes, you are a good man who got frustrated. The internet does not give a man the opportunity to "pause" in his decisions as they are made "now" and can't be taken back. Anyone who posts as much as we do has been there and done that.

I have a suggestion -- just a suggestion from one shooter to another. Give Al a call, send the die back for a "fix" or let him buy it back or send the entire rifle and the die and let him "fix" the marriage between the components of chamber, brass, extractor, and die.

There are many who believe that Al Warner is the best long range smith on earth, and I am one of them. However, I KNOW Al and Dan Warner are honorable men who would look forward to making a member of their their shooting family happy. Al has offered to assist you despite the fact that you physically challenged him. You are better than that. Just "shake hands" over the phone and and let WTC do their magic. Take the opportunity to get it right.

Regards,
Jim Hardy

 

[JHardy]

Lynn:

Yep, Jim Borden is a great smith -- no question. Over the years I have noticed that some smiths believe in polishing the chambers and some do not. Just like some believe in breaking in the barrel and some don't.

I often speak of Al's credentials without mentioning Dan (bad on me). Al has built all my guns, and Dan has done several sight rails including a custom one for a Swindlehurst. I have been very pleased with Dan's work as well.

When I posted to your request for info on my WTC die (on BRCO, I was under the impression that you might not have the instruction sheet so I tried to talk through the setup. I offered to send you my instruction sheet if you needed it. My WTC die works great on my 284 Shehane. It was not built on my old Kiff reamer (a great one) which I gave to one of my best F-Class friends. I faxed the old print to Al and we tweeked it a little -- and I gave Al permission to tweek the reamer print to be summitted to JGS in any other way he thought would be beneficial. So, there is no question that the die and reamer married up well. Al even did the fireforming for the die.

Since I received the WTC die, I have obtained two more neck shoulder bushings so that I can test different neck tensions. I was able to determine that my Shehane shot best with brass that was cleaned up all the way on the necks (.0125 with Lapua expanded up 6.5X284) for a .004 neck clearance on my loaded rounds. The best neck tension for me was .002 and the extra bushings let me test this. They all worked very well on my HS and neck tension. They measured exactly correct. Al also supplied me with a HS button for a nice touch.

I just hope you get things worked out. It sounds like it will happen one way or the other.

I retired from 1000 yd BR with a great 300 WSM reamer grind by Hugh Henricksen. It took me five months to get that bad boy. It cuts a throat for a 187 BIB which also works great with the 210 VLDs because the BIB has such a long bearing surface. Just my good luck. I love the 300 WSM, and Matt Kline has me fired up about building a 300 WSM prone gun. When I do, I will send AL my reamer to cut the chamber and for what ever specs he needs on a new WTC die. I already have a great JLC die that is spec. off the Henriksen reamer, but I love my WTC die and just want another.

The WTC die will usually HS about .005 with no shims installed. Of course that is too much, and the shims allow you to get the HS where you want. If I understand your post, the die would not size the way you wanted with no shims, i.e., too long. This may sound nuts, but are you sure you set up the die correctly? It (WTC die) is different than the typical FL die, and without the instructions (or my incomplete details on BRC), it would be easy to set it up incorrectly. If the die is too long, that might be an easy fix -- but then again I am not a smith.

At any rate, I wish you the best of luck at the NBRSA Nationals. Advice: Shoot close to Jerry and shoot when he shoots! He owns the wind out your way.

Favor Center,
Jim "Peacemaker" Hardy

 

[warner]

Lynn-
It is nice that you won't address me directly. Clearly, you have no interest in what I had to say in my last post, not do I expect you to pay attention to this one. For the record, a mistake was made when we sent you the die, as it did have the wrong shim pack. I sent the correct one out to you the day you informed me of such. You did not get what was lying around. In fact, it has nothing to do with what type of action you have, as you so gently elude. I look forward to receiving your die.

Dan

 

[warner]

Never once did I deny that you called and explained your situation. What you are not understanding here is that bolt lift and extraction are not the function or resposibilty of the die; be it ours or any other that you buy commercially. I explained to you then, just as I am now, that those things (extraction and chamber finish) should be at least looked at before blaming the die. If it is a matter of making new inserts, so be it. But we think it makes sense to fix issues (if they exist) rather than making work arounds to compensate. Just as I did in my previous response, I pointed out that I am not blaming your gunsmith for poor finish; merely stateing that it should be looked at as a possibility.
Let me state this again clearly before I "fly off the handle". If your die does not work for you upon receipt, then there are other variables at work, as it most certainly sized the sample brass that you sent to us. There were no shims in the die, as that was wahat was required to size your samples. I suggested that you anneal your cases since they were so hard. I also stated that shims would be needed once you annealed them. I know this for a fact since I annealed one of the pieces you sent.

Dan

 

[JRS]

I'll try to be as diplomatic about this as possible Lynn. I used to enjoy reading some of your posts. This is no longer the case. Why do you feel the need to continue your public assault on WTC? Email or telephone would be the proper way. IMO, you have made a complete arse of yourself on this forum. I can't recall Dan posting anything negative about Jim Borden. He is in fact a very good smith. Al Warner just happens to be the best smith. No one has attacked you for working for the USPS :-X It is obvious that you simply don't understand how to properly set up the WTC die.

Rich