Which Concentricity Gage, 21st Century or Sinclair?

[Timon]

I have previously asked the forum if a Concentricity gage is something that is needed, I have decided that I need one. Now, I am trying to get some opinions on the 21st Century one vs the Sinclair one. From what I see the Sinclair one is simple and does a basically good job. Some people that I have spoken with tell me that it can be a little cumbersome to work with.

the 21st Century is clearly a better unit all the way around, but is it $170 better. I have purchased the 21st Century neck turner, so I think with turning necks, the Concentricity gage will see a decent amount of use. However, I could of course be wrong about how much it will be used.
So my question is if the Sinclair one is good enough, or is the 21st Century really worth the extra $170?
Thanks for any input folks.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Go with the 21st. Youd be able to see where your extra money went if you could use both. Of course i always advocate for getting good dies and skipping the concentricity gage. Once you solve the issues itll just sit on the shelf and the 21st will sell faster on the used market

 

[lotech]

I've had the Sinclair tool for about ten years. Simple, good quality, and works well. Also, the least used tool on my loading bench. When looking for a cause for inaccuracy, I don't recall neck concentricity being one of them, at least not yet, and I've checked a few.

 

[JEFFPPC]

None

 

[jepp2]

So my question is if the Sinclair one is good enough, or is the 21st Century really worth the extra $170?

I have had both of those (of my 4 total). The Sinclair will give you what you want, but it is slightly more dependent on your technique. Mine didn't really come into play with neck turning, but it did for:
- sizing dies and bushings
- bullet seating and technique

I went on a several year quest to reduce the bullet run-out in my loaded rounds. I learned a lot, reduced my case neck TIR from sizing and my bullet run-out due to seating. But I can't say it ever translated to anything on the target.

 

[Timon]

I have had both of those (of my 4 total). The Sinclair will give you what you want, but it is slightly more dependent on your technique. Mine didn't really come into play with neck turning, but it did for:
- sizing dies and bushings
- bullet seating and technique

I went on a several year quest to reduce the bullet run-out in my loaded rounds. I learned a lot, reduced my case neck TIR from sizing and my bullet run-out due to seating. But I can't say it ever translated to anything on the target.

I am looking to reduce my group size and am looking at every possible cause. The groups are very small as is, but I am trying for better. I’m just just sure, really, if the Concentricity gage is going to help and if so, is the more expensive one justified.

 

[jepp2]

is the more expensive one justified.

I may be a bad person to ask. But since you did, here is my progression:
1 Hornady
2 Sinclair
3 21'st Century (I actually had two of them at one time)
4 Accuracy One

Each one performed better than the ones before it. If you get the 21'st Century model with the wheel, it is much easier to get consistent readings with than the Sinclair version. The 21'st Century equipment is in high demand and easy to sell (has been my experience). So the fact it works better, you will enjoy using it more, and when you no longer need it, you can recover most of your initial cost, that would drive my decision.

During my effort to reduce runout, with the changes I made, my sized cases now have case neck runout under 0.001" TIR. And my bullets are under 0.002" TIR. They didn't start there, so it might help you reduce your group size.

 

[Timon]

After all the replies I have received on this thread and another I had posted about tools, I have decided that I will skip the purchase of the Concentricity tool, at least for this year. I don’t need another tool collecting dust and there are plenty of other things I would like. For example, I would really like an 8 pound container of Benchmark, or perhaps a few thousand CCI small rifle primers. Dream on, right!

 

[skeeljc]

I have the Sinclair. It does what I need. Just a basic measurement tool. It is simple and easy to use. It has all the adjustment required to measure runout of the case neck and the bullet. The case supports are simple steel balls, no moving parts to wear. It uses a robust dial indicator. No need to read runout in tenths.

 

[Chiquita]

Instead of buying one, just make one for now and see how much you use it. If you use it on regular bases then buy a good one.

I bought the indicator and the articulating arm, I made the base and the attachment arm and whole thing is attached to the arbor press. However, the base is not adjustable and is good for .308 or similar size cases. I know it is no where close to the quality of what others offer.

 

[Jon D]

I made a similar choice not too long ago. I bought the sinclair and have been happy with it. It's told me a ton about my dies, my lack of reloading consistency, and technique. Still working things out with the dies. If you can't measure it, you can't fix it. I was happily loading some real bananas and didn't even know it. You can pay more and get something better, but the sinclair unit is well made and plenty good enough to find the errors. Very glad I didn't wait longer to save up for something more expensive.

 

[Clark]

I modified my Sinclair so I could measure the bullet at the ogive relative to the case shoulder.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

FWIW & IMHO,
Accuracy One with a Mitutoyo 513-402 test indicator...

Regards, Matt.

 

[K22]

If it helps you sleep better at night they get the one recommended here.

I never found measuring it made any difference if performance at least for me.

 

[fatelvis]

I'm partial to Accuracy One, as far as it's construction is concerned, but I agree with K22, as I don't see any difference in it's use. That's why I sold mine.

 

[gilream]

I have previously asked the forum if a Concentricity gage is something that is needed, I have decided that I need one. Now, I am trying to get some opinions on the 21st Century one vs the Sinclair one. From what I see the Sinclair one is simple and does a basically good job. Some people that I have spoken with tell me that it can be a little cumbersome to work with.

the 21st Century is clearly a better unit all the way around, but is it $170 better. I have purchased the 21st Century neck turner, so I think with turning necks, the Concentricity gage will see a decent amount of use. However, I could of course be wrong about how much it will be used.
So my question is if the Sinclair one is good enough, or is the 21st Century really worth the extra $170?
Thanks for any input folks.

I have owned an RCBS Casemaster for many years. It is overbuilt in that it purports to perform several functions...all of which it does poorly except for the concentricity reading which it is very good. It sits on a high perch on my loading bench and is used often as a spot check durning various points in the loading process. Not sure if it really helps on paper but it will tell you if your chamber is flawed, if you are not squaring your dies properly and if your bullet seating technique or die needs upgrading. Buy the Sinclair if you want to save some $$.

 

[blisle78]

Go with the cheapest one without an indicator and spend the extra money on a quality dial indicator! Interapid, Mitutoyo, Brown & Sharpe, Starrett to name a few (in order of my personal preference)

 

[Sniper338]

I have a sinclair id sell... it does the job and def gives reassurance. Its a good entry level to figure things out more..

 

[Big Mc]

I have previously asked the forum if a Concentricity gage is something that is needed, I have decided that I need one. Now, I am trying to get some opinions on the 21st Century one vs the Sinclair one. From what I see the Sinclair one is simple and does a basically good job. Some people that I have spoken with tell me that it can be a little cumbersome to work with.

the 21st Century is clearly a better unit all the way around, but is it $170 better. I have purchased the 21st Century neck turner, so I think with turning necks, the Concentricity gage will see a decent amount of use. However, I could of course be wrong about how much it will be used.
So my question is if the Sinclair one is good enough, or is the 21st Century really worth the extra $170?
Thanks for any input folks.

For me its FORD ? Chevy. Witch do you like. Both work well. Just my two cents Tommy Mc

 

[JimSC]

I am looking to reduce my group size and am looking at every possible cause. The groups are very small as is, but I am trying for better. I’m just just sure, really, if the Concentricity gage is going to help and if so, is the more expensive one justified.

I would recommend that you first borrow one from a friend to see if you need it. If you have your sizing procedure down it could be a waste of money and effort. You may find you should be looking at other possible causes

Since I fine tuned my sizing procedure my concentricity gage sits on the shelf. Using basic starter equipment my runout is consistently less than .001 sizing .22 through 30 cal. I use a FL sizing die with the expander ball and depinning rod removed. I use sizing dies of almost every brand, from Lee to Whidden

I eliminated my runout almost entirely when I switched to the following sizing procedure.

I depin the primers in a separate operation then FL size the case with the expander ball removed. The expander ball being pulled back through the neck when the neck is unsupported by walls of the sizing die is where I found the necks were being tweaked out of concentricity. Think about it. All sizing dies regardless of brand are bored out with a singe piece through reamer. Any bending of the neck can only occur when the necks are unsupported by the walls of the die.

The last step is to expand the neck with 21st Century expander mandrels in a Sinclair Gen II expander die to get the neck to the desired ID. If it worked for me, it should work for anyone