Finally breaking down and buying an annealer. I've been using my buddy's Benchsource, which works great but I haven't read a bad review on the AMP. So the $1,000,000 dollar question, if you were buying an annealer, would you get a BenchSource or an AMP
Which annealer?
- Thread starter Cody Richardson
- Start date
Mark Johnson
Silver $$ Contributor
I had used a friends benchsource and ended up buying an AMP. I'm very happy with the purchase. If you are on a budget and/or not going to be switching calibers very often, I think the benchsource is great. You have used it, so you will be familiar with the results. Like I said, I bought the AMP, I don't think it's going to be producing wildly more consistent results than the benchsource, but I think it is much easier for me to use given my circumstances.
If I were annealing 300+ cases at a time I would find the AMP tiresome and slow. I anneal a match's worth so avg 100 at a time and the AMP takes about the same time or slightly longer than feeding the hopper on my gas unit (which I just sold), making sure the nozzle is adjusted, watching to make sure the flame stays in adjustment as the tank pressure changes and watching for the occasional hopper jam. In either instance I am still 'tied' to the machine to anneal; it was not a 'load the hopper and walk away affair' for my unit. I like the AMP and I did find the seating pressures are measuring much more consistent than after using my gas unit. For my needs the AMP wins...YMMV.
highlife
Silver $$ Contributor
My choices would be Annie or the AMP. I currently have an Annie the ease of set up and time is worth it IMO. You still have to sit and wait to load each case with the Bench Source. So you not going to get away with not Handling each case. In Less you get a Hopper feed Annealer.
Richard
Richard
There is a recent thread on the AMP which currently have 172 replies. You should read through it to get the different perspectives.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/my-new-amp-annealer.3904123/
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/my-new-amp-annealer.3904123/
Coming soon. .. ...With in a week.
Build your own induction annealing machine.
Cost about $400 dollars.
Plans, schematic, parts sources. AND how to put it all together. Have built two already. You will need some shop skills, tools, and be able to solder.
Pictures, and doc,s will be posted in about a week. Will handle all size cases, from .223 to Lapua 338, win mag, win mag ultra, 30-06. Etc etc
In auto mod will do one case right after another, every 10 seconds. Annealed case drops through a trap door after annealing.
Once built, easy to set up for just the right amount of annealing for each size case.
More to come later.. Regina
Build your own induction annealing machine.
Cost about $400 dollars.
Plans, schematic, parts sources. AND how to put it all together. Have built two already. You will need some shop skills, tools, and be able to solder.
Pictures, and doc,s will be posted in about a week. Will handle all size cases, from .223 to Lapua 338, win mag, win mag ultra, 30-06. Etc etc
In auto mod will do one case right after another, every 10 seconds. Annealed case drops through a trap door after annealing.
Once built, easy to set up for just the right amount of annealing for each size case.
More to come later.. Regina
Last edited:
How do you measure seating pressure?
I use that term loosely as I don't directly measure the pressure, just using a common vernacular used in reloading circles. I have a K&M arbor press that has a stack of Belville washers set at a defined spring rate. A dial indicator measures the compression of the washer stack as I am applying force to seat the bullet. I get a relative reading comparing cartridges to each other to determine consistency. Using my gas annealer there were many outliers; most bullets started moving at 14 thou of compression but 1 out of 10 or so would not start until 28-30 thou. With the AMP annealer they all have been within a few thousands compression before the bullets started seating. Not scientific, just an observation after seating several hundred after gas annealing and 86 after annealing with the AMP. I am not claiming that the AMP is better than gas annealing, just in my hands I get better consistency than the machine I was using and, more importantly, the technique/setup of the machine.
How many different cases do you anneal? How large are your batches?
I use 6 Dasher, 284, 308, 7 RSAUM, and 300 WSM. All these require a different setting of the two torches attached to the BenchSource. For this reason I use all the cases that I have of the same type and I anneal them in one single operation. This means annealing 300-400 cases at the time. This is minimizing the time for setting up the torches. I am very happy with the BenchSource it is very fast and efficient. I have no experience with the AMP but I believe the future of annealing is there. Eventually, the prices of the induction annealers will come down to the $500 range.
benchsource has been working for many for a long time, remember never buy the "a" model of anything
Are you gonna' publish the details on this forum in the reloading section using a fresh thread and an obvious title? I hope so.
Mozella... yes I'm getting my documentation together as well as assembly procedures. Things I've learned over the past year.
The original concept, of using 1/8th inch copper tubing for the induction coil and using a small radiator with a fan to coil the coil coolant came from "hollywood".
We worked together on this for about 7 months. We came up with a really great machine.
This posting and others will be a continuation and improvements of that first concept.
Here are a few pictures as well as the schematic of the systems. More information will be coming, later this week
The pictures are... 6mm Dasher in the annealr, a 300 win mag ultra, the back of the annealer, radiator and fan, and the trap door..
The original concept, of using 1/8th inch copper tubing for the induction coil and using a small radiator with a fan to coil the coil coolant came from "hollywood".
We worked together on this for about 7 months. We came up with a really great machine.
This posting and others will be a continuation and improvements of that first concept.
Here are a few pictures as well as the schematic of the systems. More information will be coming, later this week
The pictures are... 6mm Dasher in the annealr, a 300 win mag ultra, the back of the annealer, radiator and fan, and the trap door..
Attachments
I would pick one depending on my ability. I have worked with metal all my life . But I also don't load hundreds of cases at a time . Do I needs anealer with speed no
Can I
Anneal as good as good as a case needs
Yes
Bench source is good Amp has done their home work Of all the annealers the most idiot proof is the Amp . Larry
Can I
Anneal as good as good as a case needs
Yes
Bench source is good Amp has done their home work Of all the annealers the most idiot proof is the Amp . Larry
The easiest, I believe, is a Fluxeon Annie, I had been using a friend's Bench source for a couple of years and bought a used Fluxeon Annie on this site. It is a very easy annealer to use. In the same amount of time that you load the bench source tray one case at a time you can anneal the one piece of brass with the Annie. You hold the brass in your finger, press the foot pedal to anneal it and place it in a metal pan, then do the next piece of brass the same way. Fast and simple! It takes about 30 seconds to show a friend how to use the Fluxeon Annie with the same case, it is that simple. We do a couple of hundred cases each time, sometimes 300 cases as 3 of us are using it. Every case is annealed exactly the same and every case seats with the same feel using the Annie, it was not that way with the propane type annealer. If you want automated annealing buy a Giraud Cartridge Case Annealer to go with the Annie http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm I looked at a used Giraud on this site then figured out annealing 100 to 300 cases is just as fast with the Annie alone by hand.
I looked at the AMP, it is almost twice the price and they try to impress you with the science, not sure every lot of brass will be annealed to precisely, exactly the same hardness and if you turn your necks by 0.0005 to uniform them the anneal will change ever so slightly also as your cases grow from brass flowing they will be different. As we know brass changes as we use it. As they state it is "perfect" with virgin brass. In other words it is most likely it will anneal about the same precision as the Annie set up with the correct time as they both are time oriented. With the Amp you have a case holder to load and unload each case which will slow down the annealing process. To me that would be a pain. The Annie and the Giraud together is about the same price and will give fully automated precision. The person I bought the Annie from said the AMP did not work any better than the Annie, but they had already spent the money. Only difference was the AMP was a little faster initial setup.
The next interesting thing is building one your self or a kit, I originally built a propane annealer using an Arduino computer and stepper motor for fun. I was then going to build an induction annealer using the 1000 watt ZVS circuit board and copper tube coil ($35) with the Arduino computer board ($7) as a controller, after looking at the price of parts and time to build it, I decided I would rather spend the time shooting. Also you will have about the same amount of money in it building it yourself as buying the Annie. You will also have a very good warranty and excellent support.
All I can say is the Fluxeon Annie, I believe, has the best price performance of anything out there. It has both standard coils and water cooled coils, any case angle with the supplied ferrite concentrators, vertical case annealing with the water cooled vertical coil. It is very versatile and easy to set up. Water cooling is easy with any cheap little submersible water pump ($7), all you need is a dribble of water as it does not loose much heat. The Annie power unit is only 6 x 8 inches and 8x12 inches with the water cooled coil, small and efficient. You don't loose much bench space.
K.
I looked at the AMP, it is almost twice the price and they try to impress you with the science, not sure every lot of brass will be annealed to precisely, exactly the same hardness and if you turn your necks by 0.0005 to uniform them the anneal will change ever so slightly also as your cases grow from brass flowing they will be different. As we know brass changes as we use it. As they state it is "perfect" with virgin brass. In other words it is most likely it will anneal about the same precision as the Annie set up with the correct time as they both are time oriented. With the Amp you have a case holder to load and unload each case which will slow down the annealing process. To me that would be a pain. The Annie and the Giraud together is about the same price and will give fully automated precision. The person I bought the Annie from said the AMP did not work any better than the Annie, but they had already spent the money. Only difference was the AMP was a little faster initial setup.
The next interesting thing is building one your self or a kit, I originally built a propane annealer using an Arduino computer and stepper motor for fun. I was then going to build an induction annealer using the 1000 watt ZVS circuit board and copper tube coil ($35) with the Arduino computer board ($7) as a controller, after looking at the price of parts and time to build it, I decided I would rather spend the time shooting. Also you will have about the same amount of money in it building it yourself as buying the Annie. You will also have a very good warranty and excellent support.
All I can say is the Fluxeon Annie, I believe, has the best price performance of anything out there. It has both standard coils and water cooled coils, any case angle with the supplied ferrite concentrators, vertical case annealing with the water cooled vertical coil. It is very versatile and easy to set up. Water cooling is easy with any cheap little submersible water pump ($7), all you need is a dribble of water as it does not loose much heat. The Annie power unit is only 6 x 8 inches and 8x12 inches with the water cooled coil, small and efficient. You don't loose much bench space.
K.
Jason...
Working on it. Will be about a week. Lot of information to put in one packet. I'm also going to try and up load a video to youtube. (have to open an account).
kshan mentioned bench size. I made the last one with a larger foot print, so it would be easier to photograph. The physical build can be any way you want it... ie... more compact, just watch heat dissipation. It really is a neat annealer.
Looking good Regina.
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