Which 6.5 cartridge for a long action?

[ormandj]

Hi,

I'm planning to build two rifles (was going to try to build a single, multi-purpose rifle, but this obviously turned into a does-everything-ok-but-no-one-thing-well situation):

1) Lightweight hunting/hiking rifle.
2) Range rifle (not BR, more a practical design that is accurate enough to shoot to ~1000m. Not a 30lb clamped-to-a-vise-shoots-0.00001"-groups-rifle).

I'm in the cartridge selection phase of my project(s). I'm impressed with BC/SD of 6.5, and the lowered recoil is very appealing. Now I'm trying to determine what cartridge I should go with. I'd like to be able to run 100-160gr projectiles, so the 'baby' 6.5s are out. Here's what I've been considering:

1) .260 Remington. Lapua will be offering brass/is offering brass, and you can form brass out of 308 variants, which means brass will never be hard to come by. It also looks like it's a great shooting cartridge, reading impressions of people like Zak. I am, however, concerned as I've read the neck isn't that long. I'm going with a LA specifically because I know 6.5 bullets tend to be quite long, so I won't be limited by a SA magazine. Is the .260 capable of seating out the 140+ gr high BC bullets effectively?

2) 6.5x55 Swede. Loaded to pressures that are safe in a modern action it sounds like this is a great option, it has slightly more capacity than the .260 Remington, and it sounds like it has more neck to seat in. Lapua makes brass, but there aren't many US sources (I think Winchester makes some, as well) - so I'm stuck with European suppliers (and price). I don't think Lapua will be going away anytime soon, so this is 'ok' with me, but certainly an advantage of the .260. It sounds like the 6.5x55 will have a velocity advantage over the .260, without sacrificing much barrel life.

3) Wildcats, such as the 6.5-06. I don't know much about these, but they sound like a lot of fun. At the same time, though, they generally sound like they are also barrel burners. All brass generally has to be formed from other cases.

4) Anything you kind lot suggestion.

I'm looking for suggestions, at this point, bearing in mind my intended usage. Both rifles will be built on savage actions, so that barrel changes will be more easily performed by myself.

 

[FryeGuy]

since you have a long action, what about a 6.5x57 mauser for a different wildcat? plenty of cases to make it out of. Looking the sierra 5th edition thou, it looks almost identical in velocity to the 6.5x55 swede. I would think it would be somewhat faster. the 6.5-06 would also be a good one as well. there is also a person offering used redding dies for it now in classified section. with all that said, I still vote for the swede.

 

[JeffG]

.256 Newton, essentially a 6.5-06, but has that special mystique of a retro cartridge built for the ages....Brass? Yes, it's available, but if I was doing any bench work I would pick something that Lapua makes brass for.

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

If I was going to build another 6.5, I would take a serious long look at the the 6.5 Creedmoor. After determining the bullet and the COAL that you want to use, you can throat ream the chamber to do what you want. As you noted, the 6.5's have high BC bullets to choose from, its accurate, and will shoot at 1000 yds.

 

[1000yardstare]

I would take FryeGuy one step further and go with the 6.5x57 Ack Imp. Gives 6.5-284 velocities.

My new long range F Class rifle built on a Shilen Special Match barrel is chambered for the 6.5AI. PT&G made my reamer. Am currently forming cases from new Rem 7x57 brass using the COW method.

Realistically the most you can expect from any of these hot 6.5s is 1200 rounds accurate barrel life, then they fall off a cliff.

 

[Laurie]

ormandj,

yes, .260R works fine in long-throat form with 140s seated out at around 3" COAL. Nowadays most people are going the other way seeing it as a short-action cartridge and using relatively short throating for 120-130gn max bullet weight.

Top Scottish gunsmith Callum Ferguson (Precision Rifle Services) is a great fan of short-throated .260R using magazine Lawton actions and similar. Throating is designed around varmint bullets, but which also accepts the 95gn Nosler Partition. Callum says the Partition will take any European deer species going including large red deer stags. That may or may not provide the basis for your lightweight hunting rifle.

For a long-range, long-action rifle, I'd look at the 6.5X55mm first which happily gives 140s 2,900-2,950 fps MV from a 30" barrel. People do get a true 3,000 out of the standard Swede in a modern action, but that's pushing the design.

The Ackley Improved version gives the 6.5X55mm quite a bit of extra capacity because of the parent case's considerable body taper. I considered this version closely when I had a 6.5X55 target rifle built recently but rejected it in favour of the standard version because of the apparent lack of off the shelf dies. However, I've since learned CH4D lists dies as a standard number at 80 odd $US - if I'd have known then, I'd have gone AI.

http://www.ch4d.com/

The 6.5X55AI is considered by some as an ideal long-range 6.5 as it approaches 6.5-284 performance but with near 100% powder fill-ratios.

After that, it's 6.5-284 and wildcat versions of the short magnums. Performance goes up a bit and barrel life down a lot!

Brass-wise, as noted you've got good Lapua 6.5X55mm brass here now and .260R on its way. If I were building a custom .260 now I'd wait until the Lapua stuff appears to see if it's as good as other recent Lapua introductions - .22-250R, .308W Palma, and 6.5X47L which are all very high grade and also see what the neck thickness is to adopt a no-turn chamber based on 0.0015" clearance (total of 0.003")

Going in the other direction, 6.5X47L and 6.5 Hornady Creedmoor will match .260R and almost match 6.5X55mm in short actions MV-wise with 140s when suitably throated. The Hornady brass reputedly doesn't last any time at these loadings. The Lapua case suffers IMO from its small rifle primer that needs a custom action or the firing pin turned down and bolt body bushed in more mundane actions (like my FN SPR / Win M70 which has been disastrous in 6.5X47L and is being rechambered to .260R with its large primer). Anyway, why take a small case and load it at 65,000 psi when a larger one will do it with a bit more powder but lower pressures and better case and barrel life?

Laurie,
York, England

 

[Larryh128]

The Creedmoor is basically the 260 done better. Very good choice. If I went 6.5 x 55, I'd do an Ackley chamber.

 

[JRS]

+ 1 for the 6.5x55 improved. I agree with Laurie entirely. Am awaiting a 6.5x55 BJ from WTC (Al Warner). It's been a bit of a wait, but worth it.

Richard

 

[sp260]

Stick with the factory brass,unless you like all that work. I get 2900 out of my 1000yd prone rifle in .260r 43.5 h4350 140 bergers 30" Broughton. I would stick with 260 6.5X55 or 6.5X284 good brass. I have 1300 rds. In my 260 set it back once about an inch.
A creedmore is not a 260 it's still smaller and can not run the 140s asfast just like a 260 can't run them like a 6.5 284 but it all comes at a price.
I have a tikka t3 in 6.5X55 for my light gun hunting gun goes 7.5# with a Loupy 4.5X14 I get 2750 with 46 gr of h4350 22" factory barrel.
Keep it simple shoot and have fun.
Good luck
Tim

 

[sp260]

PS. I shoot 140 bergers in my tikka also.

 

[zcrackshot]

I shoot Berger 140's in my Tikka T3 6.5X55. 46 gr of IMR 4831 groups extremely well as long as it doesn't get hot. Most accurate factory rifle I own. I am a huge fan of the Swede!

 

[jr600yd]

Today the 6.5/06 is considered a wildcat but fireforming brass is easy. I use Winchester 25/06 brass, run the necks over a 6.5 mandrel, load and shoot. No big deal to do. You can push this caliber right up there with the 6.5/284's but barrel life will suffer.

 

[dennisinaz]

I have a Rem Mtn rifle with a Krieger barrel in 260 Rem and a .294 neck. It shoots great and is nice for walking around with. I have shot it out to 500 yds is about 3/4 MOA. I am going to rechamber to Ackley- mostly because I hate the .294 neck.

I also have a 6.5-284 and it seems to have considerably more steam. On a long action, I would do a 6.5-06 Imp.

 

[HillbillySniper]

260AI give you almost the same ballistics as a 6.5x284 but three times the barrel life. Lapua making brass for 260 now or you can make it outta 243 or 308 brass. Or another option could be 6.5x47 Lapua if you wanted to change to a short action or you can easily run it outta a long action.

Hillbilly

 

[ormandj]

With 260/260AI, going with a long action makes sense, yes? I'm going to be using a Savage action/magazine setup, if that helps. I'm still not set on this cartridge, but I figure I'll start pricing out my options. 6.5x55 is still interesting to me, but it sounds like there really isn't much difference at all unless I'm looking at 160gr bullets, which I'd be shooting at shorter ranges regardless, so it really wouldn't matter much if I had to seat them deeper in the 260R cases. My only real hang-up on the 6.5x55 is the lack of modern-action loading data, so I'd have to work up from a fairly low point when reloading, and the lack of alternative brass options in the US. It seems like more people are using the .260R competitively vs. the 6.5x55 Swede, is there any technical reason for this? Or is it just the new trendy cartridge?

 

[jlmurphy]

More people are using the .260 because it will fit a short action. I have a Win. model 70 long action chambered in 6.5X55 as a tactical rifle. H4831 ( very stable) gives me 2850 fps with Lapua Scenars, 940 rounds and my borescope shows little throat erosion. I am very happy. By the way the 7X57 brass is hard to find for the 6.5X57 conversion.

 

[JRS]

Actually, the best 6.5x57 cases are readily available now- RWS

 

[flatlander]

I spent a lot of time making the decision between 6.5 chambers for a new bbl. years ago, and wound up going with the 6.5x55 as the best compromise between adequate velocity & bbl. life. That 30" Krieger on a Nesika action shot some fine scores in 1000yd any/any LR pone matches with both Lapua 139s & S142MKs, easily giving just over 2900fps with N160. I used R-P, WW, Lapua, & RWS brass, and have been satisfied with loaded round bullet runout in all of it.

I bought a 6.5x55AI reamer a couple of years ago and used it on a 30" hvy Palma bbl. for a BAT 3LL. I wasn't really after more velocity, but wanted to get away from having to trim cases every other loading or so - the std. Swede's body taper seems to result in case stretching, even with a FL die set up for minimal shoulder bump. I haven't worked a lot with the AI, but it appears that it's going to work best in the 2960fps range. I like the case - just wish I had a shot-out 6.5 bbl. to use for fireforming.

One of the reasons I haven't shot the 6.5x55AI much is that I've been so pleased with the 6.5x47 Lapua. I use it in an Eliseo RTS for XC HP, and in a BAT 3L LR prone rifle for 600-1000yd. any/any prone matches. I'm running Berger 130VLDs at 2930fps and 140 RLBTs at 2810fps using RL17, and really enjoy shooting the little 6.5. Yeah, you can run both these bullets faster, but that's where the accuracy's at in my rifles.

 

[Laurie]

One of the reasons I haven't shot the 6.5x55AI much is that I've been so pleased with the 6.5x47 Lapua. I use it in an Eliseo RTS for XC HP, and in a BAT 3L LR prone rifle for 600-1000yd. any/any prone matches. I'm running Berger 130VLDs at 2930fps and 140 RLBTs at 2810fps using RL17, and really enjoy shooting the little 6.5. Yeah, you can run both these bullets faster, but that's where the accuracy's at in my rifles. (Flatlander)

Dennis,

that's encouraging! Having had my never-performed-well 6.5-284 Savage F rebarrelled to 6.5X55mm (and now delighted with it), I also have a 6.5X47L Eliseo S1 stocked Savage tubegun at the parts purchase stage for F-Class. A friend asked semi-seriously why I'd chosen this cartridge arguing it's not exactly exciting nowadays, maybe even a bit passe!

As with the 6.5X55, I'd rather have something that works than is fashionable, but I've got to admit I'm at risk of somehow having discovered 6.5mm after the fashionistas have moved onto 7mm or whatever. If every project on the go comes to fruition, I'll have no fewer than five rifles in the calibre sometime later this year, no two with the same cartridge! Well, at least I'll be able to compare models.

 

[BBTC48]

You may be right when you said "the new trendy..." but it's certainly a legitimate cartidge to be sure. There is sufficient load data for the Swede in a modern action giving excellent velocities. My favorites are N160 and RL22 so I use the Vihtavouri and Alliante data. I use 108 Scenars for groundhog practice at 3100fps and 130gr TSX for deer size critters at 2850fps and no where near max loads listed in a 21 1/4" barrel. Each load is a full grain under max and this is what my rifle likes for the accuracy node in a Win70 long action. Scenars are up close (.005" short of lands) and the Barnes is jumped .035". Regular 100yd groups hover around .385. Nothing tricky. Good brass prep, Lapua, Fed210's, Forster benchrest dies. I also have some Win brass and it's fine too. 6.5x55 Lapua easy to find...E.Arthur Brown if nowhere else. Reasonable. good luck.
Bill