When to give up on a new barrel?

[craveman85]

A couple years ago I bought a weatherby vanguard 300wsm for a spring bear hunt. It shot ok but not great. Fast forward to this year I decided I'm going to Montana again and I wanted to work on my rifles accuracy a bit more. The original stock was very flexible and it was easy to throw shots shooting off a bipod. I ended up buying a stockys carbon stock. The pencil thin barrel still continued to give ok accuracy but nothing great. I never was able to get under an inch with it even though weatherby somehow did. Even with factory ammo. I'm capable of consistently shooting .3s with my 260 rem and a hart barrel.
Being short on time I let a friend talk me into getting a mcgowen with the savage style nut. He's done a few of them himself with good results and already had all the necessary tools. I opted for a 24" 1:10" #5 shorter contour with one of their radial brakes for now. Overall I really like the feel and weight of the rifle. I have avortex viper pst 4-16 scope on it. I went through mcgowens break in procedure with 60 rounds of factory Winchester ammo. Didn't get any decent groups and was still getting a good bit of copper fouling after the 60 rounds. Continued to play with some Hornady factory 180gr cx loads. Still marginal accuracy and fouls a quite a bit. Then I started with hand loads. I've tried Hornady 165 interbond, Hornady 200 eldx, and Barnes 168ttsx. Using both h4350 and h4831sc. My average groups have been probably 1.5" best was 1-1/8" with 4831 and 200s. Shot 30 rounds today and it's still copper fouling pretty good.
At what point do you guys give up on a new barrel? When would you contact the barrel maker? I have 154 rounds through it right now. I think I'm going to try 178 eldx with a few powders because I have just over a month left before I go. If I don't get a good shooting load in the next 2 weeks I'll be bringing my 260 although it lacks the punch of the 300.

 

[stymie12000]

Have you tried a different scope?

 

[craveman85]

I put the scope on my nephews 300wm for load development and it shot great. So I know the scope isn't the issue. I shouldn't have given him that rifle before I shot this barrel. I bought it as a gift for him. ‍

 

[Judd]

3 different bullets and 2 different powders…that’s about the time I give up. Seems to me if it’s going to shoot it would’ve by now. That coming from someone who wasted far more components than I should’ve on a bad 6.5x47 barrel…I said never again would I go that many rounds…it was over 500rds trying way more stuff than I’d care to admit.

I would check everything though…one thing that is often overlooked and you mentioned a new stock, make sure the bolt handle isn’t rubbing the stock. Check your rings/bases but it sounds like you’ve been down this path before.

The copper fouling wouldn’t bother me with that many rounds but the targets would.

 

[craveman85]

3 different bullets and 2 different powders…that’s about the time I give up. Seems to me if it’s going to shoot it would’ve by now. That coming from someone who wasted far more components than I should’ve on a bad 6.5x47 barrel…I said never again would I go that many rounds…it was over 500rds trying way more stuff than I’d care to admit.

I would check everything though…one thing that is often overlooked and you mentioned a new stock, make sure the bolt handle isn’t rubbing the stock. Check your rings/bases but it sounds like you’ve been down this path before.

The copper fouling wouldn’t bother me with that many rounds but the targets would.

Oh that copper isn't from the full q54 rounds. Just from the 30 I shot today

 

[DaveTooley]

I would try a couple of OLD fashion conventional spitzers. Both FB and BT. All this new fangled stuff has been hit or miss for me.

 

[762plinker]

i would consider a couple of things...a new bbl being one of them.
for a hunting rifle consider 3 shot groups..if it takes five in a hunt, the rumor is you are not much of a hunter.
you re happy with the scope so check the ring and bases
consider a krieger prefit bbl or other top brand

 

[jackieschmidt]

Historically, McGowen has been a top notch barrel in satisfying the accuracy requirements of a hunting rifle.
I would not expect it to be leaving that much copper in the barrel. But 30 rounds is quite a bit.

I would clean it, take it to the range, put your best as of yet load in it, shoot a three shot group. If it is anywhere near an inch, clean it, put one round through it, put it away, and take it hunting.

I don’t know what species of bear you will be hunting. I assume black bears. I darned sure wouldn’t take a 260 to hunt anything with brown fur.

Big high capacity cartridges in light rifles are not that easy to shoot and expect really tight groups. At my Gun Club, I see guys shooting rifles that are light enough to carry in the Rockies that are capable of pushing 200 grns worth of bullet over 2900 fps, and they are generally satisfied with anything around a minute of an angle.

 

[Carl S]

I would get the barrel clean.may be a clean with JB.check everything is tight and nothing touching your stock,bolt handle barrel e.t.c.then try some different bullets.a benchrest type bullet can really tighten your groups and in some case are good to hunt with.i use them quite alot to hunt with and have no problems..your hunting applications may differ from mine though..Good luck.

 

[boltfluter]

Take the .260 and go hunting. Come back to the .300 when you are not so pressed for time. This hunt is supposed to be fun. Just what I would do.
Paul

 

[Bronsin]

At this point in the game you don't have enough time left to do much of anything other than zero the scope and go hunt with it. If it will stay inside 2" at 100 that's good enough. You don't need prairie dog accuracy to kill a bear, especially if he's inside of 200 yards.

 

[Brady W]

I would try a couple of OLD fashion conventional spitzers. Both FB and BT. All this new fangled stuff has been hit or miss for me.

I like this, try some lighter bullets at a higher velocity. Might do the trick.

Make sure you scrub the copper out of it before you take it shooting again. What you are doing if you don't clean it thoroughly is you are constricting the bore and causing the pressure to go up, which will throw flyers.

I like Sweet's, it's what I use here at the shop when I go through barrels. I ALWAYS follow up with something like Hoppe's or Butch's because it will neutralize the Sweet's.

I usually push 2-3 wet patches through, then let it sit 20-30 min, and come back with 2-3 wet patches of Sweet's. Then dry patch, then wet Hoppe's, then dry patch again. If you want to let it sit overnight, you can with Hoppe's and then wet/dry patch it before you take it to the range.

I will also use the gray JB on a patch only. 2 patches, 10-15 strokes through the barrel, without coming out the crown. If you do, take it off and start over from the back. Then short stroke the throat before changing patches. Then clean with Hoppe's.

This might help. My general rule is if you can't get it to shoot in about 100 rounds, stop. Call the manufacturer and tell them as much as you can. Bullet's, powder, velocity, group size, cleaning regimen, solvents, etc.

Might not be everyone's deal, but it has worked for me. Pretty soon I will be writing up some articles on our (Mark, Frank, Jeff, myself, maybe a couple other guys) cleaning and inspection process, to try to help people with questions.

Good luck,

Brady @ Bartlein

 

[Old Navy]

Recheck the torque on the nut. Make sure the barrel and the nut is not touching the stock.

 

[Riesel]

I, also, have been at the door of frustration. I took my best load and tinkered with the seating depth,
solved the problem.

 

[craveman85]

I got what I'd consider an acceptable load. I decided to just start over with my new remington brass, 178 eld x's, regular federal large rifle primers, and h4350. My 9 loads I tested had one group at 1.25" and that load got me a sticky bolt. All the other loads were just under an inch with the smallest being .92" I had a flat spot in my velocities over a .6gr range so I'll keep the middle load and play with seating depth a bit more.

 

[1lessdog]

People look at me and say what the hell. I have removed more copper out of barrels by doing this. And they are the cleanest and smoothest barrels and they always shoot real good. Clean them with Cream of Wheat. I put in 8 grs of red dote then fill with C of W and shove the tip into a bar of soap.

I was fire forming some 6MM AI and 22-6MM AI. I would shot like 8 to 10 rds and a hr later do it again. The barrels can get pretty hot after 10 rds so I never shot more than 10 rds at a time. That is when I looked down the barrel and was shocked it was so clean. I shoved a dry patch down the barrels and could not see any lint.

I had a Remington 788 22-250 that had never been cleaned. I bought the rifle in 1974 and shot the hell out of it. I did the Cream of Wheat treatment to it. In 20 shots over time the barrel looks like it new other than the throat.

Give it a try, you have nothing to lose.

 

[kochie]

I like this, try some lighter bullets at a higher velocity. Might do the trick.

Make sure you scrub the copper out of it before you take it shooting again. What you are doing if you don't clean it thoroughly is you are constricting the bore and causing the pressure to go up, which will throw flyers.

I like Sweet's, it's what I use here at the shop when I go through barrels. I ALWAYS follow up with something like Hoppe's or Butch's because it will neutralize the Sweet's.

I usually push 2-3 wet patches through, then let it sit 20-30 min, and come back with 2-3 wet patches of Sweet's. Then dry patch, then wet Hoppe's, then dry patch again. If you want to let it sit overnight, you can with Hoppe's and then wet/dry patch it before you take it to the range.

I will also use the gray JB on a patch only. 2 patches, 10-15 strokes through the barrel, without coming out the crown. If you do, take it off and start over from the back. Then short stroke the throat before changing patches. Then clean with Hoppe's.

This might help. My general rule is if you can't get it to shoot in about 100 rounds, stop. Call the manufacturer and tell them as much as you can. Bullet's, powder, velocity, group size, cleaning regimen, solvents, etc.

Might not be everyone's deal, but it has worked for me. Pretty soon I will be writing up some articles on our (Mark, Frank, Jeff, myself, maybe a couple other guys) cleaning and inspection process, to try to help people with questions.

Good luck,

Brady @ Bartlein

If you doing black bear 260 is plenty.