When do you reject brass?

[RonAKA]

I am preparing a batch of 100 Lapua 6BR, and have run into a bit of an issue. I have a Lyman shell holder, and about 6 of the 100 fit very tight into the holder -- to the point you almost cannot do it by hand. The majority slip in like butter, but not these small few.

You can see high spots on the cartridge, and I stoned the face of the cartridge slightly and that seemed to help, but they are still stiff to put into the holder.

Have you encountered this problem? And what do you do -- just put them in the scrap bin or ??

 

[tenring]

A week ago, I had two Lapua fired cases that would no go into the Redding shellholder. The problem was that the firing pin indent on the primer had cratered, causing a tit to form. I simply filed them down even and presto, mo problem.

 

[memilanuk]

Ron,

Usually when I find cases that are a 'snap fit' into the shellholder, they are ones that have got pressure tested a little too much - rounds fired in a match during a rain storm, or during max load testing, etc. Usually the primer pockets are similarly expanded - and the primers all but falling out.

If you have brandy-new virgin brass that is already that tight in the shell holder, I'd say they ain't going to get any *better* as time goes on. It sounds like the extractor groove diameter is out of spec. on those cases - you may want to check with the blads on your calipers to get some numbers for reference. Given the number you've found so far, you may want to contact who you bought the brass from and see about returning it, or contacting Lapua and asking them for some new brass.

HTH,

Monte

 

[RonAKA]

So I tried measuring the rim as best I could with calipers. I really couldn't consistently measure a difference between the tight ones and the ones that fit. The most consistent reading I got was 0.0515". This compares to the cartridge diagram which shows 0.0539". So, they don't seem to be overly thick.

I am beginning to suspect the shell holder may be a problem. I don't really know the history of it, as it was passed on to me from my father about 40 years ago. So it is at least that old. I recall we loaded .308 for a friend, but that is about it. See the photo below. It is the one on the right. The left one is for a belted magnum case which I have used for years without issue. That one is about 45 years old. It is not chrome plated, while the #2 holder is. Strange as I would have thought they were about the same age. In any case the #2 seems to be roughly machined, and you can see my expensive Lapua brass scraped into the machining marks. I wonder if Lyman did something dumb like start plating the holders without changing the machining dimensions to allow for plating?

I'm thinking I should buy a new holder and try it to see if that solves the problem. Your thoughts?

 

[DHD]

I have many shellholders, as most here probably do, and they aren't created equal as far a size goes. Not to say that they don't work, but they aren't all the same even within a size. ie, I have one #2 size that I can use any .473 case and also the Lapua 6.5 Grendel cases with. I use it exclusively when resizing as I set my sizing dies up with it. Another Redding of the same size will not let me slide a 6.5 Gren case into it as the rim is too thick.

I may not have answered your question, but try another shell holder before you chunk the cases or try to file anymore from them.

Going by my shellholders, Lee tend to be a little more generous, Redding tighter, and Hornady in the middle. They all are quality but I use the Lee the most for the reason stated above.

 

[gunrac]

Try a different holder. I have some new old stock Lapua. [ cardboard box]. Some are like you described right out of the box.

 

[RonAKA]

I went out and got a new very inexpensive Lee holder and it works just fine with all the cases, including the "problem" ones. I've concluded that the shell holder I had was a Lyman experiment in how badly you could make a part. The machining on the Lee is far superior to the chrome plated #2 Lyman, and quite similar to the non chrome plated X13 Lyman in quality.

Thanks for the help on this. The Lyman holder is now in the garbage instead of the Lapua brass!!

 

[necchi]

Interesting Ron,
I have a Lee holder for my 308, and had to toss some new Win brass that wouldn't fit,, ;D ;D ???

 

[Shynloco]

Ron,
I haven't been reloading as long as some of these guys, but one thing I have learned is when you have a problem, even with new brass, it just isn't worth the effort or potentials issues brass could cause not to just chuck them in the trash, Lapua or any maker of brass. Old saying.....penney wise dollar foolish!

 

[KevinThomas]

Hey Ron,

Sorry to hear that you've had some fit issues here, but it sounds as though they've already been pretty well addressed by other posters here (thanks guys!). I seriously doubt that you have any "problem" with either the brass itself, or the shell holders; you have a problem with the combination of the two. Call it accumulation of tolerances, tolerance stacking, whatever, it's the situation that occurs when two items which are within spec and intended to interact together, won't, without either of them actually being "out of spec." Dealing with some fairly tight tolerances here, and this does happen occasionally. DHD and Gunrac are spot on with their answers, and that's the route I'd suggest as well. Never hurts to have an extra shell holder (or two) for situations like this, and as you've found, there are some minor differences between the various makes. Don't toss the brass. The price of extra shell holders will be more than offset by saving cases that otherwise would have been dumped, so you'll come out ahead in the long run.

Hope that helps,


Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[Shynloco]

Hi Ron,
After reading Kevin Thomas' (Lapua USA) remarks, let me clarify my comments that immediately preceded Kevin's. I, in no way, was bad mouthing Lapua Brass. As a matter of fact, I use Lapua brass in seven different calibers of rifles I own and reload for. My 6mmbr Savage has never tasted anything but Lapua Brass and I am on my 11th reload of the same 100 Lapua casings loaded with 29 grs of Vhita Vhori N133 pushing 68 gr Bart's Bullets that I started with months ago. I might add I have NOT had any such problem as you have described.
SO to be absolutely clear, I believe Lapua brass is second to none. That doesn't mean if I find something isn't going quite right, that I would hesitate to round file Lapua, Winchester, Norma, Remington, Hornady or any other manufacturer's brass that may be in tolerance, but didn't perform like all the other pieces of brass in that box/bag when I bought it. It does grieve me to toss good quality brass, but I would do it in a heartbeat regardless if I used my RCBS, Redding or Redding Competition Shell Holders, Lyman, Lee or any other shellholder that is my cupboard of which I have collected a few. I just happen to have the opinion that it just isn't worth pushing the envelope that has the potential of causing a greater problem or any other issue to any of my weapons that would fire that brass. Hope things work out for you and do not be turned off to Lapua brass because of the issue you incurred. There simply is no finer brass to use in your weapons.

 

[RonAKA]

I now have no concerns about the Lapua brass. I'm quite sure it is a defective shell holder. On close look it is very badly machined. The front part on a holder is normally machined a little lower than the area where the base sits. In this Lyman holder this front part is actually higher. So it makes it a challenge just to get the shell in, as it is immediately wedging. And even when it gets in, the space is tight.

As best as I can measure the Lapua rim, thickness is fine, and under the maximum thickness by quite a bit. I did weigh all the cases and standard deviation was a little higher than I had expected at 0.55 grains. I shoot Lapua rimfire and weighed a box of 50 Midas M. Every single loaded round weighed within +/- 0.05 grains. I started out just weighing to the tenth of a grain, and realized that they were closer than that, and started over. Now that I call excellent quality control. That is a maximum deviation of about 0.1%. These 6BR cases had a maximum deviation from average of just over 1%. However, there was no relationship between the weight of the case and whether or not it fit the Lyman holder. One of the lightest ones did not fit, nor did one of the heaviest.

Average weight was 125.89, so these seem to be the earlier heaver brass compared to the newer blue box ones. I would prefer that for my Savage factory chamber, so I may get another box from the same lot.

 

[KevinThomas]

Shynloco,

not taken that way, and no offense taken in any way.

And yes, we DO appreciate the compliments! ;D

Kevin