What's the difference in between....

[Bangs OH]

Thanks Everyone, I believe I'm going with the 20 VT and use Lapua brass. The rifle since I mentioned semi custom will most likely be a cooper, so I'm hoping there won't be an issue using Lapua cases in there rifles. I'll also use bushing sizing dies so I can somewhat size brass to fit the chamber and give it the neck tension it likes.

Sounds like a plan. Fwiw, if you inquire over on www.saubier.com there's at least one person who sells formed .20 VarTarg brass.

 

[GAnderson]

James, you will probably have to turn a little off the necks of the 20VT with Lapua brass....I believe the chambers of the Coopers are .232 and that is right at what a loaded round will measure. A friend of mine recently bought a Cooper 20VT and that is what we found out to be true. But don't let that get in the way of going the 20VT route.....it is the coolest little round and I had an absolute ball shooting prairie dogs with mine this year.

Gene

 

[varmintshooter]

You will have to turn necks with the 20vt, coopers have a .232 neck. Use whatever brass you want but you can form it from 223 if you choose. I have shot paper @ 600 with mine and killed groundhogs over 500 yds with the vt. Great choice

 

[lpreddick]

Todd Kindler, the creator of the 20 VarTarg and 20 Tac sell Dakota 20 Tac brass at the woodchuck den. No fireforming! Extremely consistent in weights and can take a beating...4000 fps with 32 and 35 gr bullets. He has just about everything a 20 and 17 cal shooter needs

 

[rcol317]

JamesnTN, take SmokinJoes advise, read all the information on Sauber and Small Caliber Club. Great information available and will help you make a educated decision on a custom build. I shoot them all and they all are great. I was a big VT fan but now started shooting a 20 SCC. Truth is like Sherm said, they're all great.

 

[SmokinJoe]

James, FWIW, was out shooting the 20-221AI (about the same as 20SCC apparently) last weekend & got it up near 4100 fps with 32 V-Max where it was beginning to show some flattening of the 205M primers, but still no bolt lift issues - smoothe as silk. That won't happen with the 20VT for some unexplainable reason. Both great calibers, but I'm hooked on the 40 degree shoulders now. If you use Lapua brass, you will have to turn a little off for whatever you choose if it has a .232 neck, but that is actually a good thing if you are planning to use bushing sizer because it gets everything uniform. I'm also having fun with a 20-223AI these days & it will easily shoot 40's over 4000. Figure to use the little guys for the bulk of my PD shooting, then when the shooting slows down as the day progresses, go to the 20-223AI for the little longer shots required from then until you move to another PD town. Whiddens or CH4D will make a sizer for you at reasonable cost & you can make a Wilson seater from a modified Ruger 204 die with your chamber reamer. If I was doing what you are contemplating, I would patiently look for a decent buy on a Dakota Predator/Varminter HB with a 223 boltface (understand that I have fallen in love with those rifles & I'm very biased for them), then I would have an X-Caliber barrel fitted with your reamer & have Whidden's make you a custom bushing FL die & have the gunsmith make a seater as above. Otherwise, I would look for a Remington , CZ or Sako 491 as a basis to build from. Those are all great rifles. Hope this helps you in your decision.

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

As others have suggested the Fireball case is a great starting point. The added performance level of the 20SCC over the 20vt is noticeable and worth the little bit of extra work if you are starting a build from scratch. My fireform load with the 20 SCC moves a 32 grain Varmageddon bullet at 4,000+ fps with great accuracy (under 1/2" groups) and no pressure signs at all. Once the brass is fireformed the cartridge is capable of 4,150 - 4,200+ with a 32 grain bullet. As mentioned previously you can't get those kind of speeds out of the 20vt safely. Also the neck on a 20 SCC is .233 so its no turn with the Nosler 221 Fireball brass and maybe even with the Lapua (you would have to take a measurement). The efficiency and fun level of the 20SCC is off the charts! 8)
You can read plenty about the 20SCC on www.smallcaliberclub.com as others have mentioned. Best of luck on your build whatever you decide to go with.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Its all preference. If a person wants speed with light bullets, you might as well do a 20 Practical or 20 Tactical which require no extra work for reloading and brass is much cheaper and readily available just about anywhere. Dies are cheaper and easier to find as well. Wont be able to notice any difference in recoil and the 20 Practical will feed from a magazine much better. Of course accuracy is completely subject to the rifle components, build quality, and shooters ability. The 20 SCC is a little different, but that's all. No real advantage over other 20 cals. Just more work and more expensive components and dies (221 FB brass is about $50 per 100). Nothing really beats the 20 Ackley Hornet for low recoil to "watch the action" and the 204 Ruger rules the roost for speed in .378" rim cases. The rest are just hanging in the middle. So if I'm not going for the fastest speed or the lightest recoil, I personally would take a close look at what is the cheapest to shoot and easiest to reload for. Nothing against the 20 SCC, it has it's place with folks that enjoy wildcatting and I'm sure it's a great little round. This is just my view and how I personally go through the process of selection when considering a new rifle build.

 

[5spd]

I run a 20 practical and have no issues running a 32g bullet at 4085 fps, the 20 tactical will run a 24g ntx at 4400 fps.
In my 20P AR15 & bolt builds I have no problems smacking steel, p-dogs, coyote at 400 yards running a 32g bullet at 3785 fps.
No labor intensive work on making brass, neck down & go, same with the 20T neck down & shoot, bam cases fire formed.
Brass (.223), dies (bushing for the 20P), standard RCBS/Hornady dies for the 20T easy to get.

 

[L.Sherm]

One other thing to consider is if you want to see the hits in your scope your not gonna with a 20 prac,20Tac or 204. I installed a brake on my 20 prac. just because of that reason. Your also gonna run 3-4 grs. more powder in a 20 prac to get the same speed as a 20 SCC. It is true components will run you a little more for a 20 SCC versus a 20Prac,20 Tac but a set of whidden dies for the 20SCC are not that much more than a set of redding bushing dies and whidden dies in my open are hands down a better die. Just a couple more things to consider. Like I said alot comes down to preference.

 

[fredo]

One other thing to consider is if you want to see the hits in your scope your not gonna with a 20 prac,20Tac or 204.

This is contrary to my experience with a couple thousand rounds down both a .20TAC and .204R.

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

i agree with what L.Sherm wrote, i have had plenty of 204 rugers and a couple 20 tac rifles that i couldn't always see hits thru the scope with. The weight of the rifle has a big impact on this, most factory 20 caliber rifles are fairly light and therefore tend to move just enough when firing that you can't always see the hits. In my experience going to a fireball based 20 caliber cartridge or adding a muzzle brake to the 223 based 20's make them much more enjoyable to shoot and also allow you to see most if not all your hits thru the scope. Just my experience, others mileage may vary.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

One other thing to consider is if you want to see the hits in your scope your not gonna with a 20 prac,20Tac or 204.

This is contrary to my experience with a couple thousand rounds down both a .20TAC and .204R.

I will agree that recoil is more in a 204R vs some of the smaller 20 cal offerings. Being that most folks always have hearing protection in place when shooting prairie dogs and gophers, a good brake is not a bad idea to reduce the recoil on a large 20 cal round. It would help for sure.

However, it's all really subjective to the power level you have your scope set on and the distance of the target. I have no problems seeing gophers explode with my 8-32X scope set at 14X at 125+ yards. Turn it down to 8X-10X and I can see the action pretty good at 75-100 yards. Of course my 204R is fairly heavy so that helps a good bit.

Nice thing about the 204 is that if you hit a gopher correctly (lower abdomen when they are standing) you don't need a scope to witness the explosion! That being said, I often leave my scope on 20X-24X for better accuracy. As soon as I hear the "CRACK!" of the bullet impacting on a closer distance shot, I raise up to watch the pieces fall from the sky

I had a 20 VT and was surprised at how much recoil I had. Wasn't a whole lot less than my 204R running slightly reduced loads. But all 20 cals are a pleasure to shoot. Really doesn't matter what you have. Barrels last a long time, their all pretty fast, very accurate, and they deliver enough energy to small varmints that you will be smiling after the shot