What's the best 1000 yard cartridge to use?

[AllanR21]

I'm thinking of having another custom rifle built. I know I'll use a Bat Action and Krieger barrel but that's where it ends for me. I'm thinking of 7 SAUM, the 6.5 by 47, the 284 etc. I'm not thinking of 6.5 by 284 for barrel longevity reasons. I usually use McMillan for stocks but have seen other stocks out there and wonder what else is comfortable to use. I'll also be at 500 yards a lot.

Any thoughts of 6XC?

This will mainly be for things like F Class but I'm not ruling out some off the bench shooting as my back isn't what it used to be.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[DennisH]

You already named them: 284 Winny and the7SAUM

I am building a 284 Winny as we speak for my 1K gun!

 

[Steve Blair]

My current F-Open Long Range rifle is a BAT 3LL147OCTPIC, 32", Ø1.25" Krieger 9" twist, .284 Shehane in a Manners Composites F-Class stock. It tracks well, makes weight (21#5oz. w/NF BR), and is very accurate. The integral 20' Picatinny rail eliminates one irritation source.

 

[savageboy]

Sleepygator- just wondering-(I shoot all 6.5's and 6brx) why the .284 Shehane vs. the 7 RSAUM? The .284 Sh. uses less powder, but you have the fireforming and custom dies, etc. I have done alot of fireforming w/ .260AI and 6brx. I'd like to do a 7mm next, and wondering what the benefit of the Shehane is?

 

[Steve Blair]

I'd like to do a 7mm next, and wondering what the benefit of the Shehane is?

The Shehane holds about three grains more powder and makes it a little easier to hit the 2900+ node. The 7 RSAUM is even better but surrenders barrel life. The straight .284 Win is also a viable choice. I was beaten by one in the AZ Palma.

 

[savageboy]

Steve, is the brass fully formed (sharp shoulders, etc) after 1 fireforming? Also, do are your firefoming loads accurate enough to shoot/ compete in say 600yd matches?

 

[Steve Blair]

Not quite, but close. It is certainly good enough to shoot in competition after fireforming. My fireforming loads, which are just typical .284 Win loads, have surprised me with how accurate they are. I will shoot some fireforming loads in January club matches, both Palma and 1000 yards. I do not expect to give up much. This is why the .284 Win is a reasonable choice. It is accurate, easy to load, inexpensive dies and no fireforming.

 

[glo]

Q: What is the best 1000yd cartridge?
A: It depends...

6mm Dasher will allow you to shoot between 3 and 5 times as much due to the cost factor and recoil. The 6mm Dasher in generally good conditions and within the competition environment will out shoot any other cartridge there is. Why? Recoil!

If you are shooting in varying weather conditions or terrain and or are tactically minded then the 6.5 x .284 Winchester or .284 Winchester size cartridge is good. The heavier bullets will buck windy conditions better. Also, these are good cartridges for the competition environment.

If you know you will be shooting in really bad weather conditions and terrain and are defiantly tactically minded then go with .300 Winchester Mag to .338 Lapua Mag. These cartridges are not good for the competition environment. But will shoot 1000 yard all day long in conditions that normal competitors will not even get out of their vehicles for.

Again, it all depends.

 

[bozo699]

Q: What is the best 1000yd cartridge?
A: It depends...

6mm Dasher will allow you to shoot between 3 and 5 times as much due to the cost factor and recoil. The 6mm Dasher in generally good conditions and within the competition environment will out shoot any other cartridge there is. Why? Recoil!

If you are shooting in varying weather conditions or terrain and or are tactically minded then the 6.5 x .284 Winchester or .284 Winchester size cartridge is good. The heavier bullets will buck windy conditions better. Also, these are good cartridges for the competition environment.

If you know you will be shooting in really bad weather conditions and terrain and are defiantly tactically minded then go with .300 Winchester Mag to .338 Lapua Mag. These cartridges are not good for the competition environment. But will shoot 1000 yard all day long in conditions that normal competitors will not even get out of their vehicles for.

Again, it all depends.

Glo,
I have to again shake my head at your comments, the .300wm is not good for competition?? Have you looked at any long standing records set? The .300wm ruled LR BR for years and in some condition's still can. I have shot both the .300wm and the 6dasher and it's cousin the 6brx at 1000 yard Br and all three did well, I prefer the Dasher because of what you said (Recoil) but the 6br and variants are inherently accurate cartridges.

To the op there are several active threads on the subject right now here is one to save you some time, best of luck to you.
Wayne.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3751066.0.html

 

[BigDMT]

I think cartridge selection for 1000 yard BR weighs mostly upon if your sanctioned event requires groups of 5 shots or 10 shots?

I have seen 7mm SAUM's, 6.5-300 WSM's, 6.5-284's, and various 30 calibers consistently fall short of almost every 6mm Dasher on the line in the 10 shot game. Why? Probably to do with high recoil causing excessive muzzle jump and difficulty returning to exact original battery. And a break will only cause flinch (even though it may be extremely minimal) with the enormous muzzle blast whether you consciously know it or not. I think the larger rounds also fall short against the smaller rounds in 10 shot comp. due to excessive barrel heating from large amounts of powder being burned. You can heat your barrel up during sighter rounds, but it's gonna get REAL hot after sighters and 10 fast rounds. These are conditions you cannot control. You could shoot the record rounds slower to reduce barrel heating, but the wind will usually get the best of you as it changes direction or speed or both.

For the 5 shot game, I think the bigger calibers can have an advantage in windy conditions, but regardless of any shooter's caliber selection, a shooter who knows his rifle's characteristics in the wind like the back of his hand is hard to beat with anything you choose.
On a calm day, I think it all comes down to the precision and care to detail with which a rifle was built and ammo was produced. Then the shooter's form and skill. Not so much the caliber selected since there are so many extremely accurate rounds these days.

But consider how many rounds are to be fired in a record string and that should help.

 

[Steve Blair]

But consider how many rounds are to be fired in a record string and that should help.

The OP stated "This will mainly be for things like F Class...". We shoot up to 30 rounds in 30 minutes and have a pit service pause of 7-10 seconds (when things go well) between shots. The ability to make a reasonable wind effect judgement is primary, but a cartridge that minimizes error penalty is second. The 6mm cartridges are great for Mid Range matches but usually do not have the ballistics for 800-1000 yard matches. F-Open rifles are also up to 22 pounds, providing a little more recoil mitigation than 16.5 or 17 pound guns.

 

[savageboy]

Or 22 rounds in 22 minutes (2 sighters and 20 for score) for 600yd matches.

 

[BigDMT]

Right sleepygator, but he also said he wouldn't rule out the "bench shooting" due to his aging back. So it is undecided.

A good light recoil "do all" cartridge for short and long range shooting would be a 6mm Dasher or 6.5X47 Lapua. Maybe even as big as a 260 Ackley now that a person could form brass from Lapua's new 308 Palma cases to utilize a small primer.

As for 6mm's not having good enough BC's for 800-1000 yards, I have to say no way...Just about every single 17 lb. class 10 shot 1000 yard World Record is held by a 6mm Dasher. The Heavy gun World record small group is held by a 300 WSM using 210 gr VLD's. But that's a heavy gun, and anybody can have a good day. The "Aggregate" World Records are what really matters because that show's consistent cartridge accuracy.
Here's a list of the current World Records. I shoot competition with all the fellas that are listed in "red" and they all shoot 6mm Dashers. The other guys are part of the club we belong to, but shoot mainly in Pennsylvania.
http://mt1000yd.com/1000_YARD_WORLD_RECORDS.html

In heavy wind, a 6mm may be slightly disadvantaged. But experienced shooters know that wind reading all boils down a shooter's skill, regardless of caliber. A highly experienced shooter with a 6mm can outshoot a rookie shooter with a 7mm or 30 cal round any day. The basic idea is to pick your round, big magnum or low recoil BR variant. Learn it, master it, then make it better for how you shoot and the type of shooting you do until you win.

I personally am in the middle of building a 6.5X47 Lapua for Williamsport 1000 yard BR shooting. But that's just my taste.

 

[Steve Blair]

Conversely, no one I know scoring well in F-Class shoots a 6mm at 1000. It is mostly various 7mm's with a few .30's and 6.5's. Do you shoot at Deep Creek? It is likely that our ranges at Camp Pendleton and Phoenix are a little less sheltered, conditions somewhat tougher and can change radically in 20 minutes. The OP lives in the Phoenix area. Sixes are at a distinct disadvantage in Long Range F-Class if there is wind. I recently won the 29 Palms Long Range Regional shooting against several 6.5X47L rifles. When the wind was up, my .284 Shehane was consistently inside them. When wind was milder, I shot at least as well. In Phoenix, two weeks later, I shot at 800 in 38° with a 12-14 mph gusting headwind. A six would have been a little lost in those conditions.

I understand the reasons 6mm variants perform well in BR and appreciate their accuracy. They are likely the correct choice for your application. They just don't typically work well in Long Range F-Class.

Full disclosure: I shoot my 6BR in Mid Range matches. Sometimes, I work hard for it at 600.

 

[BigDMT]

Makes sense. Have to use what works best for the type of shooting at hand. Great shootin'.

 

[AllanR21]

Thanks for the info so far. I'm thinking of the 284 right now or 7mm SAUM.

Keep the info coming.

Thanks

 

[BigDMT]

Another bigger round that will definitely buck the wind and maintain accuracy is a fairly new wildcat some may not have heard of yet. It's called the 6.5 Extreme. It is basically just the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum necked down to 6.5mm. It will easily push the 140 gr Berger VLD's 3150+ fps.

I know the fella who invented the round. He lives in Canada and the cartridge has proven itself to be extremely accurate in custom hunting rifles. I have seen the results on many various long range targets. In a custom competition rifle, the accuracy could be outstanding and the 140 gr Berger VLD at 3150-3200 fps would buck the wind better than any 7mm SAUM or 284. Recoil would probably even be less with the 6.5 Extreme.

I personally shoot a 6.5mm Remington Magnum for hunting purposes. I push the 140 gr Berger VLD at 3130 fps from a 26" McGowen LV contour barrel. It bucks the wind like no other rifle I have ever shot. Shot my buck this year in eastern Montana at 405 yards with a 10-15 mph crosswind left to right, buck was facing right. In my experiences, my load doesn't drift much at all under 600 yards in 10 mph wind. So I laid down with my bipod, dialed in the Vortex Viper PST, held dead on and took him down. Took 3 shots to take the tough old buck down, with 2 in the kill zone he was dead on his feet but still standing, resisting the urge to give in. So I finally took him down with a high shoulder shot. Everything hit within a couple of inches of where I was aiming. So drift was very minimal or my shots were slightly off from a "not perfect" rest in a hunting situation. Either way, the wind wasn't a factor at 405 yards with my Berger VLD load. There are many other shooting experiences in the hunting field with wind I could talk about, but I'm sure you get the idea : ) I am referencing hunting, because I figure that is closer to the F-Class style shooting.

So point being that a bullet with a .612 BC at 3100+ fps would work great for F-Class application as well. The JLK, Clinch River or Hornady Match bullets would work great too. Though barrel life could be a factor if speeds are pushed too high. I initially had my 6.5 Rem Mag load running 3210 fps with a 140 gr Berger VLD, but had to back it off when accuracy started changing and I had to chase the lands over 1/32". I think barrel life is pretty good with speeds of 3100-3150 fps.

Let me know if you want more info on the 6.5 Extreme.

So many options...Good Luck!

 

[Nomad47]

BigDMT, sorry to disappoint you, but according to JBM Ballistics, the 140 Berger VLD at 3150 MV has one more inch of wind drift in a 10 MPH wind than a 180 Berger Hybrid launched at a mere 2950 fps. And there are several cartridges that can launch the 180 faster than 2950.
And your hunting load has 16.7" of drift in a 10 MPH wind at 600 yards. 7" at 400 yards.

 

[Bigame1]

What about a 6mm SLR or the 6.5 SLR? I know everyone wants a short action but what about a 280 AI will shoot all the 7mm pills easily at the velocity needed to be very efficient. Just my .02 in the pot of thoughts!

 

[BigDMT]

Nomad47. Might be right. I only ever shot the 168 gr Bergers from a 7mm. But I sure as heck wouldn't want to deal with the recoil or muzzle blast from a round that pushes the 180 gr Berger at over 2950 fps. Maybe a 7mm WSM could push it that fast with a 28-30" barrel.
The various bigger 6.5's "MAY" sacrifice 1" of drift over the 7mm 180gr Berger, but will make you a more accurate shooter by doing it with recoil equal to or less than a 308 Win.

I'm just suggesting things, not saying one is better than the other. To each his own : )