What The???

[Glenn Powell]

Just got done trying to shoot from a bipod for the first time. Everything shot at 300 yards with a 308, 135SMK, 201 Norma powder, Lake City'77 brass, and CCI primers. The top left target is 10 rounds off the bench with a rest. The right top and bottom is on my fat belly with bipod. The bottom right, I was getting tired and it showed, so I stopped. The top right is not that bad for my first go round with a bipod, in my eyes anyhow. Both are no larger than 3".


What has me stumped is the two groups on the top left. Separate they are nice groups, BUT ITS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE! The larger group is almost 1" and the small one is 3/4" measuring to the outside of bullet holes. They were both fired back to back letting the barrel cool between the two. Both groups formed with the first 5 rounds, and the next five rounds just fell into the two groups you see. How it grouped two five round groups is mind boggling. I am used to flyers, called and uncalled, I haven't got good enough to call all of em yet. But 5 flyers put that close together?! What the bugger am I doing wrong?

 

[treeman]

looks to me like something is loose,action in the stock or something in the scope or mount system or you are not being consistent. were the two groups in the top left target all five at one time or back and forth from one group to the other or just random?

 

[22BRGUY]

Not sure but maybe a slightly different pressure downward and a little left applied to the stock by either cheek weld or pistol grip pressure. That would make the rifle shoot a little up and right. JMHO

 

[mao0720]

Does this rifle happen to be magazine fed? If so stagger feed or center feed?

 

[Glenn Powell]

Treeman, they were random. I think the problem is ME, and how inconsistent I am. But I will check and torque the screws down a little more.
Mao0720, all rounds single loaded.
22BRGUY, that is some good info and most likely my issue, ME. How do I correct this?

 

[22BRGUY]

There are some good vids on youtube about finding your rifles natural point of aim and you becoming part of the rifle, in essence, just a trigger puller without muscle tension or pressure which will throw off the shot. I saw a couple of those vids a while ago and will see if I can re-find them and let you know.
Best Wishes.

 

[2506]

Could be shooting form. Could be how you are seeing the target. The sunlight being in different angles from passage of time can effect how the target looks through the scope and thus you may be aiming at a different spot than you think you are. It could also be wind effect. At 300 yards little changes in wind, velocity and direction, will move your bullets. Even the temperature of your ammo. If you had it in your house or car with the air conditioner on and then take it out to the range and shoot a group then let it sit out and it warms up especially if it is out in the sun it can change the amount of pressure in the burn and cause slight point of impact changes. Just a few things to further boggle a shooters mind. ;D

 

[Glenn Powell]

2506, wind and form are the most likely culprits. All ammo was assembled at the range and fired within 15 minutes start to finish. We are having a rare summer, yesterday there was not a cloud in the sky, 72°, and very little wind.
22BrGUY, that would be most helpful, I have thought of looking on YouTube, but you can't trust everything you see on there to be correct. I wouldn't know if what I was watching is correct or not, so please, if you could filter out the "wannabes" for me that would be outstanding.

 

[BreakBad]

If you shot 5 groups, broke your position, and shot 5 more....I'd likely blame your position (cheek weld, shoulder, etc.. mentioned above), causing a slight change in your NPA.

I'm starting to do drills with the bipod, where I shoot groups but stand up between each shot...groups open up significantly. Its difficult to diagnose what you did differently without a coach present.

I have a train of thought: You can find the perfect load, but that load will only be perfect for the position you shot it in (edit: it will still be perfect, just going in a different direction which isn't good). Take that advice with a grain of salt, as I'm a 2yr noob to HP shooting.

 

[Glenn Powell]

Less than 1/2 MOA is where I need to be (personal goal). I am confident the rifle is far more consistent and capable of that then I am. When I do my part, I get one ragged hole for five shots @100y. 200 yards is not far enough for me to really "see" what this rifle and me can do. So I am stretching out to 300, and seeing some fine tune issues that the shooter needs to address. When I build confidence at 300 I will go out to 400 then 475(limit of range) and really work on wind reading skills.

I will be starting position and dry fire drills. When I can keep 20 rounds in the 10 ring at a 300y F-TR target I will be where "I" want to be. I have not shot comps since high school, 20+ years, so I am a bit rusty and have high expectations of what I should be capable of. Thanks for all the support fellas.

 

[mikecr]

I had double grouping like that for a bit and concluded it had to be the scope. This is very hard to prove.
It was a NF NXS, and to rule it out I bought another, which immediately corrected the issue.
Sent the scope to NF to test without specifying symptoms just to see what they come up with on their own. They returned the same scope, within the week, said they found/corrected a lens bedding issue. This actually fixed the problem. And great service.

Anyway it might not be your problem. But if all else is ruled out, you never know.

 

[Drop Port]

Two main causes of two grouping under perfect conditions are bedding and seating depth, that is with all other factors ruled out.

 

[MrMajestic]

Are you preloading the bipod the same every time? Just another possibility.

 

[Glenn Powell]

I know I substantially lack on the bipod(Harris), and the two right target really show it. I didn't preload the pod, couldn't, shooting on concrete, so nothing to push the feet against, and the rifle was bouncing all over the place during recoil. A proper shooting mat will be ordered soon.

 

[6BRinNZ]

all of your groups have a right hand bias - could be wind but if its you its something to look at...if the bias was taken out of the top left group it would be pretty tight.

 

[Glenn Powell]

What would I be doing to cause a right hand bias? What would be the corrective measure be?

 

[22BRGUY]

If you are a right handed shooter, it could be a little too much pressure with your trigger hand against the pistol grip. Could either increase cheek pressure to even it out, or decrease pressure against the pistol grip to the left.....If there is left pressure against the back of the stock, it will translate into shots being thrown to the right. These are just possibilities as it could be many other things as have been mentioned by others but they have worked for me at times.

 

[tkofin]

I recently ran into a situation in which my "one ragged hole @100 meter" -rifle started producing two slightly separate groups. I had just upgraded my scope so that might have guided me to see if it could the scope that was doing something strange... and it was.

The scope has parallax adjustment which is clearly marked with numbers indicating distances to target. I had simply dialed the supposedly correct distance a begun shooting. When I ran into the problem with two groups I decided to check the parallax again. What I found was that the markings on the scope were way off. For 100 meters I had to set it to something close to 170 in order for the crosshairs to remain in place when I moved my head.

After I fixed the parallax the two group phenomenon went away. Now I just need to check the real setting for parallax and make some new labels for the parallax setting (and learn to keep my head in place while shooting groups would be a plus too). The scope is 2000+ euro scope but apparently price is no guarantee against something like this.

Just a thought... very well could something else...

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Certainly could be parallax or a scope problem. I've had both at one time or another.

 

[maxscm]

Certainly could be parallax or a scope problem. I've had both at one time or another.

what he said^