What shooting distance warrants a V3 Auto trickler?

[Mulligan]

Can I ask you Mulligan, what exactly did you do to tune it?

start with cleaning the agates
Look at the knife edges under a magnifying instrument, I used the free app Magnifier. If the edges are dull, sharpen them up just a little bit, be careful to do both sides the same.
clean up the pointer a bit so you can see the center well.
adjust the bail where the pan attaches so there is no slop
level the frame and adjust the weight in the pan holder so the scale balances.
Most important part.... use the Magnifier app to look at the pointer
All adjustments are small...... little is big in this exercise.
Contact Boyd Allen and ask him..... I am just a hack at this @BoydAllen Boyd is a wealth of info and has helped many folks on this forum.

CW

 

[F Class John]

Just wondering if you draw a line at any specific yardage, that you consider a high end auto trickler benificial. Past 300? 600? 800? I just saw my velocities for the first time after using electronic targets last week at 300 yds, and was totally satisfied with the 10.3 and 12.1 SD numbers using my CM1500.

FWIW I haven’t seen anyone address the fact that depending on which electronic targets you’re using the data can be wildly unreliable for speed/sd/es. The microphones sit too close to each other on Shotmarker or Solo (I can’t speak to the Konesburg) that even a simple breeze can distort the values drastically. In a wind tunnel it might begin to provide something helpful but even then it’s touchy. E-target data other than where my bullet impacted isn’t something I would ever remotely use in any capacity of my loading decisions other than anecdotally.

 

[1shot]

I shoot mostly 1K prone with some 600 thrown if for good measure. I have been using the FX120i and Adams auto trickler for a couple of years now and my scores have definitely went up from my CM1500. I would say it's a equal combination of better equipment and more trigger time. With that said, I sleep better at night knowing that I have made the most consistent ammo possible. My shooting partner loads with my old CM1500 and shoots a Savage with a premium bbl. If I'm not on my "A" game he will spank my Pandas actions and I soundly. (And do it shooting Hornady bullets!) BTW, we are both HM shooters.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[dcali]

I have an fx120i and a chargemaster. I use the chargemaster for my 600 yard f class (.308) loads. I’ve cleaned targets with it, x counts in the 10-14 range are routine in calm conditions. Could I get 15-16x out of the 120i? Maybe. Maybe not.

The trick is that you must learn to tune a rifle and pick a load with some error margin. Then, all of a sudden, most of these obsessive tools and techniques become much less appealing. If .1 grains of powder either way doesn’t change your group size, you don’t benefit from being ultraprecise with your charge weights.

The extra money is better spent on a good rifle and good bullets.

Note that this isn’t a dig against the autotrickler, which I understand to be a nice piece of gear. It’s just my opinion on the necessity of fx120i precision as applied to 600 yard f class.

Edit: I would say that smaller cartridges may benefit more than my .308. .223s are notoriously finicky at long range. One way to tame that is to be very precise with powder charges (and everything else). But for bigger stuff, I haven’t found it necessarily.

 

[Nature Boy]

Saving time at the reloading bench allows me more time to practice. That makes the FX120 and Auto Trickler worth it.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Shooting smaller groups helps, it sure does help.. Version 3 has Bluetooth to set the charge, boy that will speed things up. I love my auto trickler. I have Scott Parker tuned scales and Charge Masters, I gotta say that the Auto Trickler setup is my favorite investment.. People can say if you learn to read wind you can win with a Daisy Red Rider. Yet if you went to their reloading rooms they are using all the sh!t the rest are.. Simply put, a good scale that is easy to use gets you to the range faster with precision reloads (assuming many other steps) which is more time practicing.. Win win

Ray

 

[D.Stone]

I have been slaving away with a ChargeMaster for the last 4 years or so, and I think it's a very good tool for the price. I have a good workflow with it, so that I can load around 150 rounds in one hour once I have my brass prepped. I take my primed brass, and seat the bullet while the next charge is dispensing. I also finally got around to re-programming mine to go a little bit faster as well. I also let it overthrow by a tenth, and then just use my fingers to pinch out a few kernels of powder to get to my target weight.

The last time I tested my hand-loaded ammo across a chronograph, my standard deviation was around 7fps for a 10 shot sample.

However, I think the Auto-Trickle/FXi scale is worth the money if you want to have absolute assurance of your charge weight. And it's one of those pieces of equipment that literally makes every rifle you have easier to load for, and shoot better...if for the only reason that it eliminates powder charge weight as a variable to chase when trying to chase accuracy and velocity consistency. You're paying for more precision that may or may not show up on target...but you are also paying for the peace of mind that if it could show up on target...it's going to show up in your favor.

I think this becomes more important to me as I start branching out into other calibers that may or may not be drop dead simple to load for, or as I experiment with some of different propellants.

 

[BenPerfected]

Not counting the wind, equipment or the shooters bench skills, which reloading process has the most the most impact on accuracy?
Ben

 

[Milo 2.0]

If your load is that charge specific, with no room for error, distance would not matter, it is a top shelf system.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Not counting the wind, equipment or the shooters bench skills, which reloading process has the most the most impact on accuracy?
Ben

Neck tension, priming and bullet quality

 

[rwj]

Neck tension, priming and bullet quality

Is the priming element related to the process/case prep, manufacture, or both?

 

[dcali]

Is the priming element related to the process/case prep, manufacture, or both?

I believe he means ignition more generally, which I believe is under appreciated. Probably because it’s hard to define/measure. I think this is why neck tension matters, why jamming seems to work a lot of the time, why we look for consistent (minimal) headspace, why some smiths go to great lengths to keep the firing pin mechanism consistent. Some even weigh primers. Full cases tend to be accurate loads. And so on.

If you don’t ignite the powder the same every time, it stands to reason that the pressure curve will vary more.

Apologies if I put words in your mouth, Dusty.

 

[onelastshot]

Distance is irrelevant. Whether you're shooting 50 yards or 500, any steps you can take to improve accuracy is benefical. Regardless of what cartridge I'm loading, I use the auto trickler, it makes loading more efficient and provides additional accuracy. We all have a certain routine we follow when reloading. I'm not going to chance that routine simply because the cartridge is going to be shot at a certain distance. I want consistency in all my loads so I adhere to a basic disipline in all my work.

 

[Evan]

Not counting the wind, equipment or the shooters bench skills, which reloading process has the most the most impact on accuracy?
Ben

I'd say, bullets, neck tension, and seating depth.

Small variations in charge weight of 0.1gns (+/- 0.05) and changing primer type have never altered my long term accuracy. Bullets, seating depth, and turning necks to get consistent neck tension really have made big differences.

To the OP, I don't think there is much to be gained at any range except confidence. Maybe if you have a finicky load, are running max pressure, or trying to push a bullet at a speed it doesn't like, then an ultra precise scale will help you do that more successfully.

 

[BenPerfected]

What is the max variance in neck tension you shoot in a tournament or serious practice? Do you measure your neck variance in .0001” .0005” or do you use a seater press with a gauge in lbs?....or both? What is your annealing frequency?... and the impact it has on seating?
Ben
Yes Bart, I want all your secrets

 

[AJC]

300 plus improved my score by at least 3 points at 300 and at 600 my low score was 597 at a 180 shot match. the cm can be +or - 1/2 a grain.

Not disputing your claim but that easily takes my 9 with tightgroup to overcharged by a lot. 3.9-4.2 off by half a grain is unsafe.

 

[Baer45]

I made highmaster F-open with a dasher using an RCBS Charge master.
I purchased a used 10-10 balance and tuned it with the help of @BoydAllen . When I started using it, I discovered my groups shrank and x-count went up a fair bit. For the purpose of doing some experiments and speeding up the loading process I bought an FX-120i and auto throw/trickler. I was worth the investment for what I like to do. I actually consider it an indispensable tool in my loading room.
I do shoot mostly at 600 and when I get a chance I shoot 1000 yards. I shoot F-class and IBS.

I did a little experiment a while back that you might be interested in.
I will not post the data as the haters and keyboard hacks on this sight breed like rats yet, I never seen their names in the top ten finishers at even the local shoots.

I loaded 5 rounds each of the following.
1.) Dispensed and weighed on CM
2.) powder thrower to get close and trickle up using the CM scale and trickling just to where the 10th rolled over.
3.) same as #2 above except used a tuned 10-10
4.) Same as #3 above except used a tuned 5-10
5.) used the FX-120i
6.) used just a powder thrower.

These were shot round robin at 600 yards.

Results
2,3,4,5 were the same
1 was good
6 not as good

Surprising enough, if you tune to the middle of a wide node, it will hide a multitude of sins.

I believe the CM must have some setting to “look the other way” if after trickling up the charge isn’t exact.... because mine will lie to you. When not using the trickler, it is as good as any other scale in the price range.


I will add, the time savings from the FX-120 is worth every penny.

Edit
To really answer your question, I mostly shoot at 600 and 1000 and think it is needed if competing at the higher levels.
CW

 

[Baer45]

I did a similar test and it came out the same. Before getting the auto throw I used the case master and then tricked the last two tenths to get rid of fluctuation. I found my DILLON scale to be the most accurate electronic under 500$ and no drift. I use a Harrell’s powder throw to 200 yds and auto Trickler beyond that...

 

[Mike7.62]

Just wondering if you draw a line at any specific yardage, that you consider a high end auto trickler benificial. Past 300? 600? 800? I just saw my velocities for the first time after using electronic targets last week at 300 yds, and was totally satisfied with the 10.3 and 12.1 SD numbers using my CM1500.

One of the reasons that I purchased the V3 was because I weigh/trickle all of my rifle ammunition, even the hunting ammo. It takes an inordinate amount of time with a balance beam scale, and not much less with my RCBS electronic scale.

When I lived in suburbia, and didn't have the rural chores that I now have, it was not a problem devoting the time required. Now though, it is mandatory to speed the process if I want to do any match shooting at all. In my case it wasn't the range at which I shoot that spurred the purchase, but the time and accuracy element in my loading procedures. Since I haven't received mine yet-tomorrow being the delivery day-I have yet to see if it is a benefit, but I am willing to take that monetary risk based upon what others have written, and upon the videos of the product that I have seen.