What happened to the die heat treating post?

[butchlambert]

I had an email saying that it disappeared. Why!
Butch

 

[stevec]

I have been looking for it also.

Steve

 

[dmickey]

The thing that confuses me is that if you have a die blank that has been reamed and heat treat it, wouldn't the heat treating warp the die? I was working at Grove Manufacturing and made two pieces of steet where one would just slide into the other. The supervisor welded a plate on the one piece and then had to grind it so that it would then fit the other piece because it had warped from being welded. Wouldn't that happen to the die? ???

 

[butchlambert]

Different deal Dennis. Melonite QPQ is done at low temp and doesn't change the dimension. Regular heat treat might and you may have to lap. I dunno.
Butch

 

[BoydAllen]

The warping of the piece was due to uneven heating and cooling. I know a fellow who has worked in the structural steel business for all of his life. Now an estimator, back in the days when he was a layout man in the shop, his crew had fabricated a tapered beam that was perhaps 6' tall in the center, tapering toward each end. Because of the uneven welding heat the flanges were a wavy mess. He went to work with a roesbud (heating tip on an oxyacetylene torch) and a red shop rag wetted from a half full 2# Folgers can, and when he finished heating and cooling the steel, it was as straight as any you have seen. The point is that it is all in how the heating and cooling takes place, Symmetrical sections that are heated gradually and cooled evenly are much less likely to warp, unless they had internal stress before the process began. People make good dies all the time, they are heat treated with processes that are very hot, and very well controlled.

 

[Robert]

Different deal Dennis. Melonite QPQ is done at low temp and doesn't change the dimension. Regular heat treat might and you may have to lap. I dunno.
Butch

Butch,

I think I would consider the fact that Durferit/Melonite QPQ is a superficial treatment and parts such treated cannot be re-polished without altering the hardened coat and treatments, should anything happens to the die necessitating such polishing (stuck cases, etc…).

If it improves friction, it does not make tool steel harder than modern thermo chemical quenching techniques, and I presume dies blanks are made from such tool steels?.

Warping is certainly not an issue with such steels and over the short length of a die when normal quenching techniques are used.:
-Heating in a controlled atmsphere over a progressive determined rise curve
-Quenching
-Temper for a low controlled temperature period as well for about 55 hR’C’ I presume.

Now, if the dies are made of low carbon non quench-hardening steel, surface hardening QPQ is the only choice.

R.G.C.

 

[WayneShaw]

So let me ask here...what you guys are suggesting is instead of heat treating a die, to have it melonite coated. That will provide a hard enough surface for resizing? And long wear? I assume it is similar to TIN coating.

 

[butchlambert]

Wayne,
It is a type of nitride. Robert, I have not had to polish one of my QPQ treated dies, but if I did with 600 or finer for possibly a tenth, it would not go below the treatment.
Butch

 

[MarkS]

I had a die done by Northeast coating with low temp Tin, works great.

Mark Schronce

 

[BoydAllen]

What kind of material is it made of?

 

[Robert]

What kind of material is it made of?

Boyd,
It is Titanium Ntride coating applied by PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) at temperatures of some 550°C. This is typical process forHSS ot yoom steel cutting tools, drill bits and mill cutters, also stamping punches and dies. Easily identifiable by its gold colour. Surface hardness obtained is in the area of 85-90 HRC.
R.G.C

 

[Robert]

Wayne,
It is a type of nitride. Robert, I have not had to polish one of my QPQ treated dies, but if I did with 600 or finer for possibly a tenth, it would not go below the treatment.
Butch

Butch,

You certainly know I have the salt nitriding process know and used for years. I know its qualities...but also its limitations in some uses. This QPQ process was developed by Degussa in Germany before the war, I think..

In the case of sizing dies, what I wanted to say was that it was better to have the die made of tool steel and normally core-hardened to some 55-58 HRC by quenching than by simple coating, whatever the method used for the said coating.

The ideal solution would perhaps be to have the full treatment, core hardening and coating (the term is improper in the case of surface hardeningl) to improve friction qualities, and this is probably what is done in production dies but, as it is question here of purpose-made ones, available possibilities dictates the process.

I understand QPQ is easily available to the shooting community via a dedicated person, so then…..

Sincerely yours

R.G.C

 

[Eddie Harren]

Butch, can Newlon's 12L14 die bodies be treated?

 

[butchlambert]

I honestly don't know. I would ask Joel. joelkndrick@yahoo.com
Butch

 

[Eddie Harren]

Butch, e-maill address no good

 

[butchlambert]

Try this Joel Kendrick
E-mail Address(es):
joelkndrck@aol.com

Butch

 

[MarkS]

Butch,
My die was a Newlon. Mike Davis had it and reamed it with his 6BRX f/l reamer.

Mark Schronce

 

[butchlambert]

Good to know Mark. I just got my reamer from Kiff to make my full length sizing die. I had him make it .003 under on the neck, .002 under on the shoulder and .003 under on the web. I'm making the first out of 416R barrel steel and then will let Joel do the Melonite QPQ to it.
Butch

 

[MarkS]

Butch,

Joel's stuff should work fine. How much does it cost? northeast charged $25.00 mim. + shipping. ou could get two dies done for mim.

Mark Schronce