All this current foolishness aside with people hoarding powder, what replaced RL12? I have had some in the past but noticed that it is not even in the lineup from Alliant.
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What did Alliant replace RL12 with?
- Thread starter Lefty Trigger
- Start date
HTSmith
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm not sure they replaced it with anything. I got a pound when it was first introduced and got speeds that were a good 30% less that their published data. When I called them they sent me a pound of R15 to replace it. I used my original pound of R12 for fertilizer
Just my own experience, others probably know much more about it.
Just my own experience, others probably know much more about it.@HTSmith has it right. Re12 wasn't replaced by anything. It was rumoured at the time that Bofors in Sweden which made this powder for Alliant had a plant accident or fire and had to shut some production facilities down which took this grade out. When normal operations resumed Re12 wasn't reinstated presumably as it wasn't a great seller. This may be an apocryphal story, or true - who knows?
It was said originally that the powder was introduced to meet a USAMU requirement for a 308 Win powder that would give extreme consistency with 168/175gn bullets and optimal gas port pressures in the M14 (still the US High-Power Service Rifle main choice before the M16 /AR-15 replaced it). It certainly gave great results in 308 and many other cartridges with similar case to bore ratios, but rarely produced very high MVs. I did notice at the time it was in production that whilst a wide range of cartridges had loads data for it in reloading manuals in their subsequent edition, it almost entirely dropped out of the following editions. It's fair to say that it lost out to Hodgdon VarGet which must have been introduced around the same time and which combines good manners, temperature stability and crucially, very good velocities in suitable cartridges.
It was said originally that the powder was introduced to meet a USAMU requirement for a 308 Win powder that would give extreme consistency with 168/175gn bullets and optimal gas port pressures in the M14 (still the US High-Power Service Rifle main choice before the M16 /AR-15 replaced it). It certainly gave great results in 308 and many other cartridges with similar case to bore ratios, but rarely produced very high MVs. I did notice at the time it was in production that whilst a wide range of cartridges had loads data for it in reloading manuals in their subsequent edition, it almost entirely dropped out of the following editions. It's fair to say that it lost out to Hodgdon VarGet which must have been introduced around the same time and which combines good manners, temperature stability and crucially, very good velocities in suitable cartridges.
Leftie,
The above posters are correct in that we didn't replace Reloder(R) 12 with anything when we discontinued it.
Reloder 12 was essentially Hercules' answer to canister/OEM 4895. We produced it for years at our commercial plant in Kenvil, NJ until we closed that facility in 1996. We produced two lots out of Radford, VA, but the production cost there made the small volume unaffordable. Bofors never produced Reloder 12 for us.
Developed separately, AR-Comp(TM) is essentially the same burn speed as Reloder 12 and the 4895s.
Shoot well,
Paul
The above posters are correct in that we didn't replace Reloder(R) 12 with anything when we discontinued it.
Reloder 12 was essentially Hercules' answer to canister/OEM 4895. We produced it for years at our commercial plant in Kenvil, NJ until we closed that facility in 1996. We produced two lots out of Radford, VA, but the production cost there made the small volume unaffordable. Bofors never produced Reloder 12 for us.
Developed separately, AR-Comp(TM) is essentially the same burn speed as Reloder 12 and the 4895s.
Shoot well,
Paul
Thank you for the update / correction Paul. It was a shame - Re12 was my favourite 308 Win powder when it was available, and as with the 4895s a very versatile number. (Back then, Alliant grades were very widely distributed in the UK, whilst IMR products were rare and even some Hodgdon products thin on the ground. Thanks to the EU and its 'Reach' regulations we're in the same boat again 
! Not that I mind buying or using your products.)
It's interesting what you say about AR-Comp being similar. I have some on order, initially for 6.5mm Grendel in a bolt-action rifle, but I'm pretty sure I can write 2020 off for any load development and will be lucky to even get hold of the powder for some time, most likely several months.
! Not that I mind buying or using your products.)It's interesting what you say about AR-Comp being similar. I have some on order, initially for 6.5mm Grendel in a bolt-action rifle, but I'm pretty sure I can write 2020 off for any load development and will be lucky to even get hold of the powder for some time, most likely several months.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Hoarding?......
Wayne
I've seen powder much older than 18 years used happily - done it myself on occasions. Even now, ICI-Nobel single-based rifle powders last produced in the 1980s still turn up in the UK and if the tin is still sealed, it looks and smells OK, then it's invariably good to go. These are in grey painted steel cans with a metal paint-can type press-in metal seal, but I've seen even older square shape green ICI-Nobel cans turn up and their contents look good.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a couple jugs left I think, if ya need it let me know
Wayne
HTSmith
Silver $$ Contributor
I probably ought to tell the rest of the story. When I called Alliant (I guess it was Alliant, it could have still been Hercules? Geez I'm getting old), they didn't ask any questions. They just sent an fresh pound of R15 and I've been a satisfied user of that powder since then. Good customer service experience.I'm not sure they replaced it with anything. I got a pound when it was first introduced and got speeds that were a good 30% less that their published data. When I called them they sent me a pound of R15 to replace it. I used my original pound of R12 for fertilizer
What got all this started is awhile back I decided I was going to stick with one manufacturer of powder and after sorting through all my data as well as others on this forum and more, Alliant won! So I pulled all my powders out of my reloading room (except for a few dedicated pistol powders that work for me) and changed my whole reloading process over to Alliant powders. I have every thing from #7 to #19 to cover everything I reload but #12 was unable to be located. I can get along without it so its not all that important but I was curious where it went.
@Alliant Reloading An update for you. I did finally get my greasy mitts on AR-Comp around 14 months ago and tried it last year in a 223 Rem F-Class rig with 77gn SMKs. A lovely powder that you have there - superb consistency, small ES values (by 223 standards) and excellent groups.
I'll be doing my initial load development in the 6.5 Grendel with it, and hope it does as well there.
I never bothered with trying any other powder than AR Comp in my 6.5 Grr, first loads I ran with it my SD was 1 over 10 rounds. Good velocity, great accuracy, temp stable in Mississippi heat and humidity. What more could one want out of a powder? Except more of it. Alliant produces the powders I use for the majority of my reloading. And if you happen to have a 6mm BR , it works very nicely in that as well.
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