What am I leaving on the table?

[diego-ted]

What am I leaving on the table by doing or not doing the following and which is causing me the most points?

1, using a Hornady auto powder dispenser and not a beam scale.
2. Chasing the spotter and not using a spotting scope to read mirage.
3. Not weigh sorting brass.
4. Not sorting bullets by weight.
5. Not sorting bullets by base to ojive.
6. Not checking concentricy on every round, I check maybe 5 of 50.
7. Not trimming or pointing bullets.

My scores at 600 and 1K have been averaging in the 185-190 range for a 20 round string.
I shoot the 185 Juggernaut with MR Pro 2000 powder in Lapua brass with Tula primers.

FYI, I no longer chase the spotter and have been using a spotting scope as well as the flags to improve my wind reading skills. I now use the beam scale for every charge.

Thx Ted

 

[XTR]

What am I leaving on the table by doing or not doing the following and which is causing me the most points?

1, using a Hornady auto powder dispenser and not a beam scale. your vertical should tell you on this one
2. Chasing the spotter and not using a spotting scope to read mirage. compared to a good wind reader Points ever time there is a shift. At most ranges 4 or 5 points, at Raton in the recent FCN/FCW, about 20 points
3. Not weigh sorting brass. Not sure you lose anything other than piece of mind that you've done all you can
4. Not sorting bullets by weight. With Berger bullets, nothing
5. Not sorting bullets by base to ojive. See #4, I also think this matters more if you are seating very close to the lands where 3 to 10 thou variation in ogive could get you into the lands. If you are jumping 15 to 30 like lots of folks have found to work I think it reduces the importance of this check
6. Not checking concentricy on every round, I check maybe 5 of 50. Probably depends on the rest of your setup. I do it the same way you do
7. Not trimming or pointing bullets. Probably varies with bullet/manufacturer

My scores at 600 and 1K have been averaging in the 185-190 range for a 20 round string.
I shoot the 185 Juggernaut with MR Pro 2000 powder in Lapua brass with Tula primers.

FYI, I no longer chase the spotter and have been using a spotting scope as well as the flags to improve my wind reading skills. I now use the beam scale for every charge.

Thx Ted

My scores at 600 and 1K have been averaging in the 185-190 range for a 20 round string.
I shoot the 185 Juggernaut with MR Pro 2000 powder in Lapua brass with Tula primers.

This is the part where you need to be honest with yourself. Would a more precise bullet get you any more points. The biggest indication of your equipments capability is vertical. If you are holding X ring you are great, if you are holding inside the 10 ring you are still good. If you're losing points to 9s at 12:30 or 6:30 then maybe you need to look further, but I'd first look at my rear bag and technique. I've proven over and over to my self that I can effect shot placement more than any other component of the system.

 

[diego-ted]

X I know the rear bag setup affects the shot, but I am not sure why. Please elaborate on the different techniques and how they affect the shot. I tend to use the free recoil method.

Ted

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

To me rear bag and technique is not about free recoil vs expensive recoil or whatever you want to call it, it's about good equipment and consistency in the hold.

When somebody complains about having vertical issues and they don't think it's because of their ammo, I remind them of the 10-12 pound melon on their shoulder and how it sits on the stock. It needs to be the same way again and again, for each shot. Some people like to put their shoulder melon full force on the stock, others prefer to let their cheek gently kiss the stock. Which ever way you do it, do it the same all the time.

I have taken to placing a towel over the stock to provide for the same feedback to my cheek all the time. I also try to shave before every match, again to provide the same feedback. In Raton, I shaved every day, something I rarely do, just for that reason.

As for the rear bag, you want to make sure the one you have matches the stock and that you have the same recoil movement every time. My PR&T stock has a very slight slope to it and I have adjusted my shooting technique to make good use of that; the rifle recoils very smoothly on the bag and stays on target.

One good way to verify that everything is correct is to see how much your rifle moves from the target during recoil. When everything is working for me, the dot of my NP2DD will slide over to the left to about the 8 ring at 42X @ 600 yards (7-ring @ 1000.) Recently during the MR state match, I discovered that it was jumping to the edge of the target and more. I totally stopped shooting after the fifth shot and losing a point almost every shot and I completely rebuilt my position to the amusement and wonderment of my scorer. I plunked back down, started shooting again, lost one more point because I had lost the conditions and then cleaned the remainder of the 20-shot string for a 195-something.

 

[diego-ted]

All very good points, which I will try to keep in mind. As far as I can tell I lose moe points left and right than to vertical. Greg as I indicated on Saturday, it took me way to many shots to correct from just hitting right of the 10 ring at 300 yards in a 1/2 minute wind condition? Prior to that string, I cleaned a 10.shot group at the target that was to lhe left and at the bottom of the frame as opposed to the top

Thanks all keep the ideas coming

Ted

 

[6BRinNZ]

What am I leaving on the table by doing or not doing the following and which is causing me the most points?

1, using a Hornady auto powder dispenser and not a beam scale.
2. Chasing the spotter and not using a spotting scope to read mirage.
3. Not weigh sorting brass.
4. Not sorting bullets by weight.
5. Not sorting bullets by base to ojive.
6. Not checking concentricy on every round, I check maybe 5 of 50.
7. Not trimming or pointing bullets.

My scores at 600 and 1K have been averaging in the 185-190 range for a 20 round string.
I shoot the 185 Juggernaut with MR Pro 2000 powder in Lapua brass with Tula primers.

FYI, I no longer chase the spotter and have been using a spotting scope as well as the flags to improve my wind reading skills. I now use the beam scale for every charge.

Thx Ted

Plenty because you are only considering the reloading aspect of shooting - yet we all say the best wind reader wins. I'm with gstaylorg.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Greg is correct, however, you can answer your own questions.

Take 25 pieces of brass and do all you can do to those 25 pieces of brass. Then sort bullets in every way possible, trim, point, measure, weight, wine & dine, etc.
Take those 25 "perfect" rounds with you to every match along with your other 50 "average" rounds. Shoot the "perfect" ammo in the second string and you will be able to tell if it's worth doing or not. After a few matches you will know if you need 75 "perfect" rounds or 75 "average" rounds.

 

[johnmyers]

Doesn't take that long to sort, trim and point a box of 500 bullets. I use John Hoover's tools and they are quick and easy and at least you know your bullets are as near perfect as you can get them.

 

[Immike]

All very good points, which I will try to keep in mind. As far as I can tell I lose moe points left and right than to vertical. Greg as I indicated on Saturday, it took me way to many shots to correct from just hitting right of the 10 ring at 300 yards in a 1/2 minute wind condition? Prior to that string, I cleaned a 10.shot group at the target that was to lhe left and at the bottom of the frame as opposed to the top

Thanks all keep the ideas coming

Ted

I get to watch several people shooting on a regular basis and one of the enemies of competition is hesitation to make full value adjustments from the sighters or their last wind call. I think this comes from lack of confidence in equipment and themselves to adapt to new conditions. The premeditated plan at the start of a match is good advice. I like to review the weather carefully before the match and be prepared for the changes as the day progresses. Treat each relay as if it was the entire match because it really is. I tell myself at every match...( Start strong, Stay Strong, Finish Strong). To quote Mr Blair...(90% is in the preparation) After that you are just a vehicle delivering this work.

 

[rminut]

others have commented with my same points but i'll add to the conversation by saying you need to adjust your focus away from the reloading bench.

it's interesting that only one of your seven talking points was shooting related because that is where HM cards are earned, shooting perfect shots every time. I bet you could add all those reloading processes and not turn a 190 into a 200 even in perfect no wind conditions at 600. It's too bad so many people think it's all about the ammo, it's about shooting perfect shots and perfect shot calls.

There are many shooting errors that can be done to make a perfect bullet fly into the 9 ring or beyond, even with the right windage on. I would be willing to bet you haven't been doing this very long and you just need more trigger time and match time. Watch the HM's at matches and notice their techniques, you f-class guys are at a little disadvantage since many don't move the sight knobs and just hold off. You can't always tell when they are adjusting for a change but you can learn a lot by just watching someone shoot high scores or good scores in tough conditions.

most importantly- dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.....

 

[diego-ted]

You are all correct! I have not been doing this (F/tr, competitive shooting very long) I have been back on the trigger for two years, with only the last year being serious. FYI, I do realize all that you are saying as related to my (shooter) ability and concur that the Indian in this case is the cause of most of my short comings. It is for this reason I am doing all that is humanly and financially possible to eliminate all non-shooter related issues.

I do shoot with some very accomplished shooters and do watch, study them as much as I can when I am not pulling or firing. However, without a coach or someone watching who can evaluate all I am doing, I am left with mostly the trial and error approach as well as what the score card indicates at the end of the day. I read what is out there, ask questions and try to make sense of it all.

I thank all for the input and advice.

Diego

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I think the intent of the OP shows that the title of the thread should have been; "What am I leaving on the Reloading table."

I like to remind people that once deem your ammo "good enough," you should stop messing with it and instead concentrate on other aspects such as marksmanship and conditions deciphering.

The problem is that you can only really practice that last aspect, at the range. In between matches, the only thing we can really fiddle with is the ammo, at the loading bench.

One of the things I do when I walk the dog is to pay attention to the conditions and see if I can detect patterns in wind shifts and discern other indicators. It's not the exact same as on the firing line, but I think it's good practice; situational awareness, or maybe conditions awareness.

 

[6BRinNZ]

You are all correct! I have not been doing this (F/tr, competitive shooting very long) I have been back on the trigger for two years, with only the last year being serious. FYI, I do realize all that you are saying as related to my (shooter) ability and concur that the Indian in this case is the cause of most of my short comings. It is for this reason I am doing all that is humanly and financially possible to eliminate all non-shooter related issues.

I do shoot with some very accomplished shooters and do watch, study them as much as I can when I am not pulling or firing. However, without a coach or someone watching who can evaluate all I am doing, I am left with mostly the trial and error approach as well as what the score card indicates at the end of the day. I read what is out there, ask questions and try to make sense of it all.

I thank all for the input and advice.

Diego

Thats pretty much all the majority have. I think the underlying message is not so much you need to be better at wind reading but you need to figure out your thinking time. Most think about a new piece of gear or a better way to trim bullets.

In my first year shooting I took along a camera and tripod to my club days (borrowed my mums ) and set it up filming me in position and at other times I had my rifle in frame and showing the flags down range. I spent a lot of time reviewing those films. Every match has a post mortem and things that I need to review and work on. That is where my effort and thinking goes.

And whatever happens don't be intimidated by the big boys - welcome the challenge.

Good luck - its a fun game.