Weatherby Vanguard VGS issues

[rebel]

I had a customer and good friend bring his nephew's Weatherby 270 into the store the other day. He had tried about 4 or 5 different boxes of ammo and was very frustrated with the rifles accuracy. He asked for my help. I took the time to free float the barrel, taking out the pressure pad ( wood stock) in the barrel channel. A few days later he came back in, still very frustrated. He bought 270 dies, 130 SGK and handed me some fire formed brass and asked for my help.
I loaded a simple ladder after measuring the chamber, the free bore is very long and I started around .015 off the lands as I have never loaded for a 270 before. Used IMR 4831 at 55, 55.5 and 56 grains. I split the difference between Lyman and Berger's data. The low end and higher end was awful, about 2.5 MOA. The 55.5 load shot dead center, two touching but threw one out to make 1.5 MOA.
I had let the sporter weight barrel cool about 3--4 minutes between each shot.
I tested a dummy shell, found that I will have a very small amount of bearing surface in the case if I touch the lands but am going to try it.
I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but he is a friend. I also have several other powders I want to try.
I am wondering, since Weatherby's action screw goes into the recoil lug ( what were they thinking? )
how would I go about bedding the thing. I tightened both screws and then backed off a quarter turn.
Crown looks OK. Scoped the barrel with a Hawkeye, chamber and throat are pristine,
Looking for anyone that may have had any experiences with the idiosyncrasies of a Weatherby VGS.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[rebel]

Bueller?.........Bueller?..........
Well, I guess it never hurts to ask.

 

[rebel]

Apparently, to hit the lands with a 130 SGK, only have about .090 bearing surface in the case. I bumped them down .005 and loaded with 4350 this time. We will see what happens.

 

[Bigguy1951]

I don't have any experience with the 270 in a Weatherby, but I have made a sub-moa shooter out of a Weatherby Mark V in 300 Weatherby mag. My son's gun was never better than a 3 inch gun at 100. Nothing made it better. Finally I took the gun and bedded it, groups dropped to 2+ inches. I tried different seating depths but wanted the gun to load from the magazine. I put a clamp on muzzle brake on the gun and it helped the shooter a lot, but not the groups. Finally after many kinds of powder I tried a Limbsaver SharpShooter. Worked like a charm and groups dropped to sub-moa. The long freebore is a Weatherby thing. Roy Weatherby did that to try to keep pressures down on the 300 and they are still doing it. I have a 22-250 shooting 90 SMK's and it likes a 0.040 jump. Try some longer jumps to see what happens.

 

[rebel]

Thanks. I thought I was alone in the weeds on this one. I will try shorter jumps and back off to see what I get. As said, it's not mine, just a friend that put his trust in me. He did do his due diligence and tried 5 different types of factory ammunition. Tried all of them again after free floating. His best was 3.5 MOA. My best with handloads and a .015 jump was 1.5 MOA - not sure if this repeatable. I'll find out.
I appreciate the shared experience. I can't remember, does the Mark V's action screw go to the recoil lug? Is this just a Vanguard thing? I know Howas aren't like that. I was very curious as how to bed this thing with that screw as a consideration. The risk of glueing this thing in the stock is pretty good as bedding finds chinks in the application of release agents. I may be able to work this out without bedding, all is required is MOA at 100 yards.

 

[CJ6]

Is there some reason he doesn't want to try heavier 140-150 gr. bullets ? 150 gr Nosler and Swift have done well for me, at least vs 130 gr of the same manufacture.

 

[rebel]

I brought some 140 Hornady's home to try. He prefers 130s, I think, because of recoil. I know a 270 isn't exactly a thumper but these guys don't shoot twice a week like some of us do. He just said "Get her shootin'"

 

[Bigguy1951]

As I recall the screw does go in the lug. I didn't have any trouble keeping the bedding compound from adhering to the screw. I use Johnson paste wax as a release agent and apply it to everything twice. Never had an adhesion issue, even on threads. Load up 3 each at 0.050, 0.045, 0.035 and 0.030 jump and see if something works. I don't know if you read the bulletin story on John Widdens 243 win at the NRA Long Range Championship, but he jumps his bullets as much as 0.060. Link to the story below.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/whidden-on-winning-at-long-range-part-2-the-cartridge/

 

[rebel]

As I recall the screw does go in the lug. I didn't have any trouble keeping the bedding compound from adhering to the screw. I use Johnson paste wax as a release agent and apply it to everything twice. Never had an adhesion issue, even on threads. Load up 3 each at 0.050, 0.045, 0.035 and 0.030 jump and see if something works. I don't know if you read the bulletin story on John Widdens 243 win at the NRA Long Range Championship, but he jumps his bullets as much as 0.060. Link to the story below.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/whidden-on-winning-at-long-range-part-2-the-cartridge/

Thanks Bigguy. Good read. Mu 260 AI ELDX load jumps .016. I know a jump can be beneficial. I'll whoop up some tonight after hunting with one load .005 off. ( because I haven't tried it that close) Then I'll up as suggested and report back.

 

[PAshooter20BR]

Is this a 270 Winchester or a 270 weatherby mag?

 

[rebel]

Is this a 270 Winchester or a 270 weatherby mag?

270 Winchester

 

[284winner]

With the Weatherby, I don't think you have much choice but to jump. Being it's a long action, I think loading longer is obviously an option. My Weatherby 7 mag likes factory fodder as much as reloads and likes jumping much better that close to the lands. You mentioned the crown looks ok. My suggestion would be to verify that with a gunsmith unless you are a gunsmith. I had an old auto loader 308 that shot quarters at 100 yards( believe it or not) then one day I pulled it out for a hunt and it shot 3" groups at 100. Thought the crown looked fine but upon further inspection by a gunsmith needed the crown cleaned up. Shot fabulous after that. Just a thought.

 

[rebel]

With the Weatherby, I don't think you have much choice but to jump. Being it's a long action, I think loading longer is obviously an option. My Weatherby 7 mag likes factory fodder as much as reloads and likes jumping much better that close to the lands. You mentioned the crown looks ok. My suggestion would be to verify that with a gunsmith unless you are a gunsmith. I had an old auto loader 308 that shot quarters at 100 yards( believe it or not) then one day I pulled it out for a hunt and it shot 3" groups at 100. Thought the crown looked fine but upon further inspection by a gunsmith needed the crown cleaned up. Shot fabulous after that. Just a thought.

No, I'm not a gunsmith, though since I own a gun store, I get folks asking me to be just that all the time.
I'm working a load ladder with jumps and the same charge to hopefully find something it likes.
That isn't a bad idea 284, as I have some really good ones ( gunsmiths) I work with and refer customers to.
It's rifle season for deer here, so I won't be spending every minute of my spare time on this but promised I'd get it done. Thanks to all for opinions and ideas. I'll make sure to tell this guy he has a lot folks supporting him.
This is the very reason I joined here.

 

[ND shooter]

No, I'm not a gunsmith, though since I own a gun store, I get folks asking me to be just that all the time.
I'm working a load ladder with jumps and the same charge to hopefully find something it likes.
That isn't a bad idea 284, as I have some really good ones ( gunsmiths) I work with and refer customers to.
It's rifle season for deer here, so I won't be spending every minute of my spare time on this but promised I'd get it done. Thanks to all for opinions and ideas. I'll make sure to tell this guy he has a lot folks supporting him.
This is the very reason I joined here.

Lets us know the findings if you would. Just out of curiosity. Always like finding out what it was or if "unfixable". Thanks

 

[284winner]

No, I'm not a gunsmith, though since I own a gun store, I get folks asking me to be just that all the time.
I'm working a load ladder with jumps and the same charge to hopefully find something it likes.
That isn't a bad idea 284, as I have some really good ones ( gunsmiths) I work with and refer customers to.
It's rifle season for deer here, so I won't be spending every minute of my spare time on this but promised I'd get it done. Thanks to all for opinions and ideas. I'll make sure to tell this guy he has a lot folks supporting him.
This is the very reason I joined here.

Pass on your findings. I'm guessing your correct and the crown is good. Just doesn't hurt to let a gunsmith inspect it for piece of mind.

 

[rebel]

Reporting back as requested. 54 gr. of IMR 4350. Loads were set at .005,.010,.020,.030,.040,.050 off the lands.
The owner of the rifle came with me to the range. He spotted , I shot. Load one was 2 inches, Load two was 1.5, Load three sucked into one hole and load four opened to .5. The owner asked me to stop as there was no sense wasting powder and bullets. I promised to load a box for this deer season and more later on. Amazing what .010 of an inch will do.

 

[Bigguy1951]

Glad to see that it worked out. IMR 4350 has always worked well in my 270's.