Wanting a new rifle but worried about recoil

[BobLeeSwagger223]

I currently have (3) 223 rifles and I am having problems with consistent hits out to 400ish yards. I live in NE and we get a lot of windy days and I am not talented at wind doping. I do reload and get sub 1/2" groups at 100 yards using 40 and 50 gr bullets. We mainly shoot prairie dogs, and out to 250 yards I have a very high hit percentage but beyond that my percentage drops.

I am thinking about buying a factory heavy barreled rifle which really narrows my caliber choices but is less expensive. I have been considering 308 but I'm worried about the added recoil. I have also considered working on a 68 or 75gr load for the 1 in 8 twist Rem 700 Compact XCR I don't shoot much. But I'm not sure that will be enough to see a noticeable difference.

If I get a 308 I was thinking about shooting the 155's for reduced recoil from the 168 or 175's. I had picked that caliber because in a factory varmint rifle 223,22-250 and 308 are about all the options.

What are your thoughts on this? I know there are guys shooting 223's at 600 yards and supposedly hitting varmints over and over but it just seems like a 10 to 15mph wind really makes it difficult or impossible without shooting 10 rounds for one hit.

Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated! Thanks!!

 

[dennisinaz]

My suggestion is to order a Savage custom shop rifle in 243 or 260 if they have the reamer. They will make it in any contour and length you want and will make any twist rate that they have a button for. You can get a nice heavy 243 with an 8 twist or a 260 with an 8 or 9 twist. You can then use the myriad long range bullets available in 6mm and 6.5mm. I am sure there are more accurate 6mm cases out there such as 6mmBR and 6XC but I doubt Savage has reamers for these. You can get one of these rifles for about $700-800 and they shoot fantastic.

I am playing with a 7WSM done this way right now and am getting a few loads in the .3s using the 180 Bergers. I can't wait to see what it can do with a less finicky bullet but I don't have anything else in 7mm right now!

I shoot PDs with my 22-250 out to about 400 yds with 40 grain Vmax and 40 grain Blitzkings. Beyond that, the wind is tough to get around. I have tried the 55s but my 14 twist won't stabilize them at 1300' where I live, even though I bet it would at 5000' where I shoot dogs! can't work up loads with them and they might give me an extra 100 yds.

 

[zcrackshot]

I shoot 75 gr A-max's out of my 223 and they buck the wind and carry almost exactly the same as my 308 pushing 155 gr VLD's. If I had to pick one to make a shot on a p-dog out at 600 yards I'd have a hard time choosing. Either one will move just over two feet in a 10 mph wind out at 600. A 40 gr V-max out of a 223 started out HOT will blow more than twice that distance in the exact same scenario. So if you think that loading some heavies in your 8 twist wouldn't be worth the effort because you wouldn't notice much difference then I ask you...... why did you buy an 8 twist? There is only one logical reason and that has to be to reach WAY OUT THERE with a 223. It isn't the ideal cartridge to make 600 yard shots on p-dogs but it ain't no slouch either. Load some up and you might be surprised.

Zac M.

 

[zcrackshot]

Dennisinaz, I may be mistaken but I think Savage builds and sells 6br's. I've seen quite a few for sale here in the local classifieds.

Zac M.

 

[brxbrad]

Have you considered a 6BR or BRX? Go to the Berger web site and run their ballistics program and compare the faster 105VLD or 107MK @ 2800 to 3000 fps against the 155gr . 308. Factor in the wind and you might be supprised by the results. Recoil won't be an issue and they are a joy to shoot. You can expect about 3000 rnds out of the barrel and cost per round is about $.50. I shoot 600 and 1000yrd F-class with good results. Savage has presision rifles for very affordable prices. Used prices are even better
Check them out.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12%20F%20CLASSl
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12%20BENCH%20REST

2 cents......

 

[Phil]

Brad,

I was just going to suggest a 6mmbr....

Seems like a good fit to me....

 

[brxbrad]

I love my BRX....

 

[M700]

Agree - I'm a big fan of the .308 and shoot my .308 more than all my other center-fire rifles combined, including on varmints. BUT, I'm not real impressed with it as a windy-day varmint rifle.

One of the good 6mm's seems like the way to go, maybe a .243 Win... http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

When I grow up (hah!) someday my .308 is likely to become a .243 varmint rifle...

 

[bheadboy]

I think the easy and best way for you is the Rem 700 varmit version of the 22.250, there are 2-3 over the years with24 -26" heavy bbl. very light recoil, accurate below .5 when hand loaded
bullets in the 55gr range at 3700 will do the job to 500 easy.

The 6mm is good but brass, dies,bullet cost go up.

bob

 

[RonAKA]

Savage LRPV in 6BR with 1 in 8" twist will shoot the 105-107 heavies.

 

[CT10ring]

BobLee , Check out a 6mm ( BR) or 22-250 1/8 twist. The heavier (65-80g .224 ) bullets seem to drift (for me, anyway) about 1/2 vs. .223 as much in a breeze as a 50-55g at 400-600 yds. I have never owned a Savage, but have seen targets shot by others (6mmbr) & MIGHTY impressive for the $. I am shooting a 22-243 w 80 g amaxes, but that is not a factory round. I shoot a .308 w 155's too - recoil is not much, really, but it adds up at 100+ rds per day. you can't spot the hits/misses w/o spotter. I have shot Pd's with . 308 110 g Sierras suppressed & that is alot of fun. I'd say 6mmbr Savage...

re .223-correct 1-10 ratio....- I have had many days shooting where I reached out in a stiff breeze & thought, why bother...I can't hit a dang thing.

 

[MarkS]

BobLeeSwagger223,

I am with Ron and the others 6BR 8 tw.

Mark Schronce

 

[coyoteklr]

put some speed on a223 69 smk, like 2900 and it will suprise you out to at least 500...
if you want to go heavier go to a 1 in 8 243 and throw some 108gr at 3100 out to 800....
either won't give you much recoil.......

 

[dennisinaz]

Dennisinaz, I may be mistaken but I think Savage builds and sells 6br's. I've seen quite a few for sale here in the local classifieds.

Zac M.

All the better then!

As for shooting 75s out of a .223 compared to shooting 107s from a 6mmBR there is no real comparison. The 107s will have far less drift than the much slower 75s

 

[K0na_stinky]

Savage LRPV in 6BR with 1 in 8" twist will shoot the 105-107 heavies.

I second this. My LRPV in 204 ruger shoots amazingly well.

 

[johnmyers]

I had a 22-250 with a 1:8 twist shooting 80gr SMK, they were great long range in the wind but bbl life was short. The guys suggesting 6br or a 22-250 with a 1:12 to shoot 55s or 60s are on the right track. I think you would get along with either one. You will be surprised at how far you can get with 55s out of a 22-250. Good luck it will be fun which ever way you go.
John

 

[zcrackshot]

Dennisinaz, I may be mistaken but I think Savage builds and sells 6br's. I've seen quite a few for sale here in the local classifieds.

Zac M.

All the better then!

As for shooting 75s out of a .223 compared to shooting 107s from a 6mmBR there is no real comparison. The 107s will have far less drift than the much slower 75s

I agree 100 percent on the 6mm's being far superior to the .224's in a 223 if wind is present. I was just under the impression that budget may play a factor in the game as the OP was stating that he may be looking into factory heavy barreled rifles or just loading for an 8 twist 223 that he already had. I was just trying to say that the difference between 40 grainers and 75 grainers being slung from a 223 was absolutely there and noticeable at 600 yards. If budget isn't an issue and you are truly willing then I know of a wildcat built by my local smith that sends .224" 80 grain VLD's well passed 3800 fps and reaches p-dogs beyond 1200 yards. It has slightly better barrel life than a 22-250 and embarrasses my 6br in a 15 mph wind when pushed beyond 500 yards. I don't own one however as brass is custom made and very expensive for my taste. My initial investment into the 6br caliber ran around $2500 to have a decent rifle built out of a Remmy 700 LTR, brass, dies, and any sort of load development without mentioning the NXS 5.5-22X56 sitting on top. I'm not sure if that's a lot or a little to most but I can only afford to build two rifles a year and still afford to load and shoot them. I wish good luck to the OP in his search for something that will suit his needs as we all seem to be searching for something we don't already have. I know I can't seem to ever be completely happy with what I have, I can always think up a new reason to build something else.

Zac M.

 

[wapiti25]

First of all, the heavy bullets buck the wind better. heavy bullets need a twist rate that matches them. A faster twist rate .223 can shoot heavy bullets better in the wind than the 1-12 with 50-55 Vs. 1-8 with say 69's or heavier. You need to match the twist rate to the bullet. As sugessted go to the berger ballistic calculator and put a number of bullets in there and see what the wind drift is at different velocitys. There is not much reason to go a caliber larger than 6mm for PD's. Look at the twist rates that a gun maker puts on their rifles before you buy. I would look at a 6mm BR using Laupa brass and one of the Berger bullets in the 88 and heavier bullets. Get a very good range finder such as the Leica 1600 and kill those PD's at longer range. Berger will tell you what Twist rate their bullets want.

 

[wapiti25]

You may also look into rebarreling one of your rifle's with a match barrel and chamber to shoot the heavy 223 bullets, also use the most true reciever that you have. I have not had good luck with "out of the box factory gun's" as opposed to those that have been worked on for accuracy.

 

[BobLeeSwagger223]

WOW!! Thanks for all the replies!!!

zcrackshot pretty much hit the nail on the head about budget being an issue. I completely believe you get what you pay for. I own Nightforce, Swarovski, Cooper, etc but I just don't have the budget for this rifle.

Several have mentioned the 223 with heavy bullets works well. It seems like wisdom to try it since I already have the rifle. I have a Nikon Monarch 6-20x44 on it currently and a bubble level attached to the scope. (I learned canting the rifle really matters!)

What bullets and powder should I start with? I would like the rounds to feed from the box mag. It's a Rem 700 short action. I use a Stoney Point gauge to check the OAL to the lands, so I can seat the bullets out a ways. I am currently using Benchmark powder. I was thinking of starting with Sierra 69gr MK. Would that be a good place to start? The Hornady reloading book says the 75gr BTHP can be loaded to AR mag length so should fit in a bolt rifle internal mag I would think.

Thank you very much for the help!