Wanted, educated thoughts on brakes

[Baddog0302]

Wanted, school trained and range wise thoughts on muzzle brakes.
My training is in deep water oil & gas well drilling, part of my annual training is in well control and dealing with forces. we use Force = Area X Pressure.
Using that, it seams to me that the "shark gill" or JP type brakes offers a greater area for the forces of the gases to work against [opposite & equal reaction] thus pushing the bbl forward, than the multi hole brakes which to me just offer a path for the gases to escape rather than out the muzzle thus creating the force [opposite & equal reaction] or "after burner effect .

 

[jonbearman]

The jp works the best.I have several types including one I made out of titanium for my encore 30-06 pistol. My homemade one works fantastic but in the future it will be jp all the way.Harrels breaks are good and the vais works ok but the jp tank style will make a 30-06 feel like a .243 or less.

 

[markm87]

Your thinking seems right. Just look at the monster brakes on the various shoulder fired 50 cal and 338 guns.

 

[jlmurphy]

It depends whether you want to counter the force and redirect the blast backward to help with a monster such as the 50 BMG, or whether you simply want to eliminate the recoil generated by the propellant blast. The problem is that the redirected blast can move the muzzle in an unwanted direction unless the forces are balanced. Tactical shooters are concerned with dust being disturbed by the downward blast, so they want brakes that vent sideways and maybe upward. Of course any brake that provides downward force will move the muzzle varying amounts with different loads, changing the point of impact. I have radial brakes from Harrell on my varmint and long range rifles, mostly to reduce the recoil to the point where I can see my shots hit and then correct for the next.

 

[in2deep]

JLMURPHY,

do you think that a brake that is not ini-diretional will have a tendancy to actually change the tune or harmonics of the rifle thus changing point-of-aim?

or just that the point-of-aim changes by virtue of the muzzle direction being moved because the gasses from the brake redirect the muzzle itself?

 

[Romulus]

I've posted this elsewhere, but I have contacted Weatherby and although I don't know who I got a hold of they went on a impassioned rant about spending tons of money on research and development of various types of brakes and that a a radial brake with the proper sized hole and baffle is more effective at taming recoil than any other design. I don't know the "educated" details but they seemed to be quite sure about it.

I just didn't like the dirt and rocks blowing around from the radial.

A JP brake is a whole different animal and imo should be quite effective however goofy looking.

 

[seanhagerty]

Un- educated discussion here.

I can not see how the ports or direction of ports can effect POI. The gases that are venting through these ports are whats produced behind the bullet. The bullet has left the barrel, and the gases do their thing through the ports.

I can see how they would effect the POA for follow up shots, but that can be adjusted before trigger pull of the follow up shot.

 

[jlmurphy]

True that most of the gas a brake diverts is from the propellant, but there is an air column ahead of the bullet equal to the diameter of the bullet that behaves just like the gas behind the bullet. The tuners used on rimfire and centerfire benchrest barrels only have to move a few thousands of an inch to change the tune. The idea is to have the bullets leave the barrel on the pause at the end of an oscillation.

 

[RDavies]

With the extra weight ahead of the muzzle, it will vibrate slightly differently.
I,m getting brakes for some of my 1000yd barrels so I,m keen to hear some expert thoughts on different muzzle brake designs, pepper shaker VS Howitzer type.
Below is one I have coming for one rifle, but I see a lot of 1000yd shooters use the pepper pot design.

 

[Baddog0302]

Nice looking brake, and it looks like it does not direct the gases to the rear as much as the JP does.
This is the one I'm considering, the small slot next to the muzzle is supposed to force the gases from the two larger ports more to the sides than back. They also offer a small port in the top , supposed to eleminate muzzle rise
Kinda $$$

 

[glo]

You are correct, area x pressure = force. So the greater the area the more effective your break. If you like a grenade at the end of your barrel then JP is for you. If your into stream line type breaks, then a radial break is for you. The JP type break will be more effective then a radial type brake. The newer tactical breaks are right in between.

The longer your barrel the less effective the break. Longer barrels will transfer more energy to the bullet. Therefore there is less energy in the gases to impact the brake.

Overbored cartridges like the RUM, Weatherby or Lazzeroni will will see greater effects from brakes than efficient cartridges like the .308 class, BR class and even the SA magnum class of cartridges. This is because the big overbored class of cartridges have a lot of extra energy left in the gases as they impact the break.

Muzzle ejecta including the gasses behind the bullet move much faster than the average bullet (about 5600fps). These gases do envelop the bullet and for the first 5 feet or so do over take the bullet. Muzzle gases do upset bullets from time to time. Also the air in front of the bullet gets compressed and then pops through the muzzle just nano seconds before the bullet.

If a break is not centered, balanced or “tuned” you will have POI issues. This is from the air in front of the bullet impacting the break just before the bullet exits the muzzle and misdirected gasses from the muzzle brake affecting the bullet (Newton's Second Axiom: F = ma) beyond the brake.

 

[hedditch]

How does one "tune" a muzzle brake?

 

[glo]

Tuning is making sure all orifices are evenly placed and properly sized. Orifices can be added or subtracted, made bigger or smaller and have their positions changed. Balance is always key.

I forget but as I remember, the primary bore hole should be just about twenty thousandths of an inch over bullet size. No bigger, no smaller. If someone can correct that would be great.

There are a million different configurations a person can use. Its just a matter of effectiveness and looks. Effectiveness can be the amount of braking, muzzle control and or blast management. Looks is a personal thing. But its best not to sacrifice functionality to maintain ascetics. That just defeats the purpose of a brake.

Oh!!! I learned the hard way. Don't torque down your muzzle brake. Just hand tight. You can over turn your brake and have the orifices out of balance. Then your shoots will mostly start hitting high and to the right. Brakes are usually right hand thread. Also you can stretch your threads, permanently making the brake lean to left side.O

 

[in2deep]

A muzzle break being concentric and true does not change your tune. It can spoil your accuracy due to variations in concentricity though.

But changing the actual 'tune" or harmonics of the barrel is caused by adding or removing the actual weight of the tuner causing your barrel to behave differently as the bullet leaves the muzzle. You wouldn't believe the difference moving a 4 ounce weight just a few thousandth's of an inch fore or aft on a barrel can do to a bullets vertical point of impact.

 

[WayneShaw]

If you plan on shooting in competition, be sure to check the rules. Some organizations don't allow the JP brake and the like.

 

[artbosco]

Educated through experience as a big game hunter, multiple awarding winning Firearms Safety Instructor for the State of Alaska, and former Iditarod Musher [my brother, that is], I've always chuckled at his comment on Muzzle Brakes: They're for Wimps!

 

[squirrelduster]

I have played with brakes quite a bit and have found a few things consistent. The radial type brakes with holes all the way around tame the recoil less than the baffle style. I have a 300 win mag that I have used as a test rifle. The radial brakes seem to also be louder, I am sure it has to do with the pitch. I had one radial brake that I couldn't shoot without ear plugs and muffs.
The one that baddog has the picture of is one of the best if it is the one I think. Made by Jim See at Center Shot rifles.
The weight and performance of a brake will affect the load you use. You may need to do another load work up after you install a brake depending on your barrel contour. Heavier barrels seem to be less effected by the extra weight. Of course these are just my findings from trying 6 different brakes on one rifle. Your mileage may vary.

 

[jadams]

Well, I guess that I must be the the No. 1 WIMP !!!
Every rifle I own has a over sized muzzle brake- " That's every rifle I own. " Even my favorite .22 Dasher
and my 6mm O.S. That's short for "On Steroids. [ it's a 6mm Grendel imp. 40º in a bolt gun ].
I copied my brakes just like the one on Gun's of the week # 26. Harold's award winning 6 Br.
The exception is my 6 ppc benchrest rifles used in NBRSA matches.

I believe the added weight on the end of the barrel reduces some of the harmonics at the end of the barrel
thus making it easier to tune by adjusting your load to match the new reduced harmonic signal in the barrel. The
brakes them self are not in any way a tuning device.

I have had custom brakes, sharks gill [ like the photos show ] and the radial types. They all work, but I don't
believe you can tell the felt recoil difference from one or the other. But I will tell you if you shoot at a range with
numerous benches they are not necessarily well received. The radial one don't draw many negative comments
but if you don't mind negative comments or complaints to the range management then use the gill type, But
you will not be well received by the other shooters !!!

If muzzle brakes are properly installed in the center of the bore, they will have no negative effect of the accuracy
of the rifle. they must be drilled or bored .020" over bullet diameter.

[ WIMP ] being over seventy and really enjoying shooting. seeing your hits on the targets before they fall
and going home with a smile not with a sore shoulder.
John