VLD's For Varmints

[MDHOGGER]

I am planning to switch barrels on my Savage 243 Win. to 6AI to extend my range for long range groundhog shooting. I am talking out to ranges of 1000 yards. I know there are larger calibers that will do the job but I did not want to burn alot of powder and deal with excessive recoil. I will also use this rifle in my prairie dog arsenal

On a recent trip to Nebraska to hunt prairie dogs a gunsmith tried to talk me into his wildcat cartridge that was based on a 243 necked down to .22 cal. shooting the 90g Sierra HPBT MatchKing at 3400 fps and a b.c. of .527 The ballistics were impressive with a drop of 185" at a 1000 yds. and 595 ft. lbs. of retained energy.

I was reluctant to go with the caliber not knowing the terminal effects of VLD's on groundhogs and the lack of heavy varmint type bullet choices in that caliber.

Upon reading and talking to more people I am finding that VLD's can be quite effective on groundhogs. I still am incline to stick with the 6AI as I have already bought dies and brass etc.

I figured originally that I would shoot 87 V-Max in the 6AI at a realistic velocity of 3400 fps and b.c of .400 that would give me a drop of 224" and 384 ft. lbs. at 1000 yds. not quite as impressive as his cartridge. I did think that I could shoot the 95 Berger Match VLD with a b.c. of .514 at approx. 3200 fps. that would give me a drop of 207" and 570 ft. lbs. at 1000 yds. This is in the ball park of his cartridge.

My question is, can I find a load that will work with this bullet in the 6AI. I hear there can be problems with bullet stabilization if you don't push the bullet fast enough and with the right twist. Also I hear this bullet can tear apart if you push it too fast. Is there a load combination in the 6AI using VLD's that will work in this situation?

 

[acloco]

I got to ask...Why?

105 AMax have a BC of .500.

You are a LOT further ahead by going with a 243 or 243 AI than a 6mm or 6mm AI. 243 is just a touch under in the energy department and the 243 AI is 100 ft lbs above the 6mm AI.

Need more energy, go with a 110 or 115 gr bullet.

Info on a 105 AMax with a muzzle velocity of 2950 and a 200 yard zero:

Range,yards) Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
Velocity,fps) 2950 2762 2582 2409 2243 2083 1930 1784 1646 1518 1400
Energy,ft.-lb.) 2029 1779 1554 1353 1172 1011 868 742 632 537 457
Trajectory,200 yd. zero) -1.5 1.5 0.0 -6.7 -19.4 -39.1 -66.7 -103.8 -151.7 -212.6 -288.7
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.5 0.0 2.1 4.6 7.5 10.6 14.2 18.1 22.6 27.6


243 AI with the 105 AMax and a muzzle velocity of 3300:
243 105 AMax 105 gr., .500 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range,yards) Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
Velocity,fps) 3300 3097 2902 2717 2538 2367 2202 2044 1893 1749 1613
Energy,ft.-lb.) 2539 2235 1964 1720 1502 1306 1130 974 835 713 607
Trajectory,200 yd. zero) -1.5 1.1 0.0 -5.2 -15.0 -30.3 -51.7 -80.3 -117.3 -164.0 -222.1
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.0 0.0 1.6 3.6 5.8 8.2 11.0 14.0 17.4 21.2

 

[Cheechako]

MD

I don't ask WHY. I say go for it.

The VLDs may not be your best choice. They are not designed to be shot much faster than 3100 fps although many guys do. You always run the risk of them vaporizing if you push them too hard. But, the only way you'll know for sure is to try them. A better bullet would be one of the non VLD types such as the Sierra 107 MK, Hornady A Max or the Lapua 105. Berger is also coming out with a new 108 grain non VLD that may be the ticket.

With any of those heavy bullets you'll need an 8 twist barrel. And a long one at that.

For extreme distances the heavier bullets will always work better. The 80 to 95 grains will do great out to 600 or 700 yards but the heavier bullets will overtake them at that point. I do not know any 1000 Benchrest shooter that uses the lighter bullets.

My own personnel suggestion is to stay with the 6mm if you want to do a lot of shooting at 1000 yards or more. The 22s look good on paper but they don't perform as well in real life. A 6.5mm may be an even better choice but I have always been satisfied with the 6mm.

acloco said that the 243AI is a better cartridge than the 6mmAI and I'm at a loss as to where he got that opinion. There is no way that a 243AI can equal the 6mmAI,244AI).

Ray

 

[MDHOGGER]

Thanks acloco and Cheechako
I just lost my first reply to acloco when I went to reference the first response. Cheechako you confirmed my thought about the 6AI vs the 243AI. Is it true the 243AI is more a barrel burner than the 6AI ? I will probably shoot more rounds at prairie dogs, about 700 rounds a year mostly but I did want this to be my long range groundhog rifle. I also question pushing the VLD's above 3150 because of the blow up and accuracy factory. The reason I choose the 95 Berger was I was worried about the terminal affect of a heavy slower moving bullet on a groundhog. How fast can the A-Maxes and Sierra 107SMK be pushed without blowing up. Also I don't want to trash my brass and gun so what is a realistic velocity to achieve with the 6AI with these bullets. By the way I used 300yards as my zero

 

[Cheechako]

MD

You can shoot the non VLD bullets as fast as you want.

The 243AI is supposedly more of a barrel burner than the 244AI because of the short neck but i don't know if anybody has proven that. I think it's more likely because you have to load the 243 hotter to get the same velocities as the 244.

You need to run some ballistic tables to compare the 95 grain and the 105 grain bullets. You may find that the lighter bullets will start out faster but the heavier will be faster out past 600 or 700 yards. Here is a good one

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj_basic/traj_basic.html

Ray

 

[MDHOGGER]

Thanks cheechako,
That's the ballistic program that I am using. I read an article that the short neck of the 243 Win. focuses the hot gases at the throat causing quicker throat erosion and longer neck cases reduce that problem. I ran a number of ballistics charts with the 105's and 107's going at 3150 fps to lessen the chance of blow up and accuracy degradation. They certainly beat out the 87 V-Maxes with more velocity and retained energy. The question is if anyone has any real world experience with terminal effects on groundhogs at 750 to 1000 yards.

 

[acloco]

The AI conversion solves the problem of burning the throat because of the angle of the shoulder.

My question is...any difference in the price of brass?

Did you look at the 6mm/243 info on the main page. Gentelman on there did very well at long range target shooting with the plain 243.

Post some pics of progress as you go!!!