VLD bullets ?

[rebs]

I would appreciate some help understanding VLD bullets. What is different about them compared to standard bullets ?Do you reload them differently from standard match bullets ? Is there any special equipment needed to reload them ?

 

[dcali]

They’re just long, pointy boattail bullets designed for low drag. The term implies a fairly aggressive secant ogive. Bottom line is that it’s more of a marketing term than a precise technical term.

In my experience, there isn’t much difference in how to load for them, but some shooters have found that they can be a little more finicky. The only special equipment you might need is a seating stem designed for the long points. Sometimes the standard stems get stuck on the ogive, or they bottom out on the meplat.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Because of the secant ogive, VLD bullets often have a more abrupt transition (edge) at the ogive to the bearing surface junction than do most tangent ogive bullets. Historically, it has been commonplace for reloaders to seat VLDs into the lands, which may help properly position a VLD bullet having such an abrupt transition at the nose/bearing surface junction for optimal entry into the rifling. However, I have found that VLD bullets do not necessarily have to be jammed for optimal precision and may be also jumped. In fact, I have yet to use a VLD for which I could not find a seating depth off the lands that worked just as well as the best seating depths into the lands. The bottom line is that you simply have to carry out seating depth testing to find out where a given VLD bullet performs optimally. For a number of reasons, I typically start by testing seating depth off the lands (jumped), then transition to testing bullets seated into the lands if I don't identify a seating depth region off the lands that provides acceptable precision.

Damon's advice regarding the the seating die stem is spot on. Some VLDs have such a long nose that the meplat may bottom out in a standard seating die stem cavity. When this happens, the seating die stem will push the bullet meplat as it seats the bullet, which may result in non-uniform seating depth, and may even damage the bullet meplat. If you are unsure whether your seating die stem will work satisfactorily with a given VLD bullet, there is a fairly easy way to test:

I typically keep a couple packs of those long and skinny wooden meat skewers around for various gun cleaning and other purposes. They're available at most supermarkets and are not expensive. You can push the long narrow point of the skewer down into the seating die stem you have removed from the die until it bottoms out, then mark the side of the skewer with a pen or Sharpie right at the edge of the mouth of the stem. Repeat the same procedure with the bullet of interest, then compare the distance from the tip of the bullet/skewer to the mark. If the distance to the mark on the skewer is clearly longer than the distance from the bullet nose to its mark, the bullet will not bottom out in the seating die stem. This is just a quick and easy way to estimate the depth of the cavity in the seating die stem and pretty much any device that is long and narrow enough to hit the bottom of the cavity will work; it doesn't have to be a wooden skewer. If the VLD bullet of choice clearly (or is very close to) bottoming out in the stem, most die manufacturers offer seating die stems for VLD bullets that have a much deeper cavity so the VLDs won't bottom out.

 

[rebs]

Thank you guys for the great information. For F class 300 yd shooting is there a distinct advantage to the VLD's ?

 

[dcali]

Thank you guys for the great information. For F class 300 yd shooting is there a distinct advantage to the VLD's ?

Not specifically. There are some bullets that will shoot very well at 300 that happen to be VLDs, but it’s not a universal guarantee. What you want is good ballistics and high precision- there are many bullets from VLDs to tangent ogives and in between that can work well at 300.

Specifics will depend on the rifle you’re using, but definitely don’t get caught up in the name “VLD”. Pay more attention to the BC and the velocity you can achieve. And then make sure they can shoot tiny groups. The 300 yard target is not very forgiving when it comes to precision.

 

[Ned Ludd]

As Damon suggested, a bullet with a good BC (not necessarily the absolute top BC available, but good) that tunes easily and provides excellent precision can be competitive in MR competitions. For comparative purposes, use a ballistic calculator to estimate the windage for two bullets of similar weight class but with differing BCs at 300 yd in a full-value 10 mph wind. Unless the difference in BC is huge, the difference in wind deflection is going to be rather small. When combined with the fact that even average wind reading skills can allow for making a much finer absolute wind call than 10 mph, the effective difference between the two bullets becomes even smaller. The bottom line is that past a certain point, the effect of relatively minor differences in bullet BC will not typically be the limiting source of error; you still have to point the rifle in the correct direction for whatever the wind is doing at the moment the trigger is pulled.

 

[Fotheringill]

I bought a box of 80 gr Berger VLD. I seated five and looked very carefully and saw a ring around each bullet. I had that Oh Sh** feeling. I called Berger and they explained I needed the other stem. Problem solved the easy way instead of tossing out bullets or perhaps the purchase of a new seating die.

 

[barefooter56]

I would appreciate some help understanding VLD bullets. What is different about them compared to standard bullets ?Do you reload them differently from standard match bullets ? Is there any special equipment needed to reload them ?

Rebs,
The comments on this string are pretty much spot on. This will help you with some suggestions we have found regarding bullet seating depth testing with the VLD bullets for both Target and Hunting :https://bergerbullets.com/vld-making-shoot/ . Be sure also to read the " Effects of bullet seating depth" link also. And this from " Lines and Designs" on the Berger website also:
VLD BULLET DESIGN

The VLD (Very Low Drag) bullet design was born from a request made by the US 300 Meter Shooting Team. It was determined that they were dropping points late in the matches due to recoil fatigue. Bill Davis and Dr. Lou Palmisano were asked to design a bullet and case combination that shot flatter than the 308 case and 168 gr bullets the team was using at the time. After a design was created Walt Berger was approached to make the bullet. The 6mm 105 gr VLD was born and shot by the US 300 Meter Shooting Team using a 2” PPC (modified 220 Swift). This combination shot with less felt recoil and a flatter trajectory than the 308 case using the 168 gr bullet and higher scores were the end result. This successful bullet design soon found its way into all long range target competition and the VLD shape spread into all other calibers.


The VLD bullet design is a combination of two very specific features. The first is a boat tail which is common on long and heavy bullets. The second and most important design feature is the long secant ogive. It is this ogive shape that allows the bullet to experience less drag as it flies to the target. This reduced drag is how the VLD shoots flatter and is less affected by wind (less drift) than other bullets. Reduced drag also translates into higher retained velocity. These are important results if you want your bullet to help improve your accuracy by requiring less sight adjustments when conditions change.


For years we have relayed that it is best to jam the VLD into the lands for best performance. This works for many rifles however there are many rifles that do not shoot the VLD well when the bullet is jammed. We have learned that the VLD can shoot best as much as .150 jump off the rifling. VLD bullets can be sensitive to seating depth and it has been found that these bullets shoot best in a COAL “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a COAL range that is usually .030 to .040 wide.


The quickest way to find this sweet spot is to load ammo at four different COAL. Start with a COAL that allows the bullet to touch the rifling. The next COAL needs to be .040 off the lands. The third COAL needs to be .080 off the lands. The last COAL needs to be .120 off the lands. One of these COAL will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. It has been reported that the VLD bullets don’t group as well at 100 yards but get better as the bullet “goes to sleep” at further ranges. We have learned that by doing the four COAL test you will find a COAL where the VLD bullets will group well at 100 yards. Once the COAL that shoots best is established you can tweak +/- .005 or .010 to increase precision or you can adjust powder charges and other load variables. Frankly, those who do the four COAL test usually are happy with the results they get from this test alone.

 

[rebs]

Phil Thank you for the very informative post

 

[corsair4360]

Rebs,
The comments on this string are pretty much spot on. This will help you with some suggestions we have found regarding bullet seating depth testing with the VLD bullets for both Target and Hunting :https://bergerbullets.com/vld-making-shoot/ . Be sure also to read the " Effects of bullet seating depth" link also. And this from " Lines and Designs" on the Berger website also:
VLD BULLET DESIGN

The VLD (Very Low Drag) bullet design was born from a request made by the US 300 Meter Shooting Team. It was determined that they were dropping points late in the matches due to recoil fatigue. Bill Davis and Dr. Lou Palmisano were asked to design a bullet and case combination that shot flatter than the 308 case and 168 gr bullets the team was using at the time. After a design was created Walt Berger was approached to make the bullet. The 6mm 105 gr VLD was born and shot by the US 300 Meter Shooting Team using a 2” PPC (modified 220 Swift). This combination shot with less felt recoil and a flatter trajectory than the 308 case using the 168 gr bullet and higher scores were the end result. This successful bullet design soon found its way into all long range target competition and the VLD shape spread into all other calibers.


The VLD bullet design is a combination of two very specific features. The first is a boat tail which is common on long and heavy bullets. The second and most important design feature is the long secant ogive. It is this ogive shape that allows the bullet to experience less drag as it flies to the target. This reduced drag is how the VLD shoots flatter and is less affected by wind (less drift) than other bullets. Reduced drag also translates into higher retained velocity. These are important results if you want your bullet to help improve your accuracy by requiring less sight adjustments when conditions change.


For years we have relayed that it is best to jam the VLD into the lands for best performance. This works for many rifles however there are many rifles that do not shoot the VLD well when the bullet is jammed. We have learned that the VLD can shoot best as much as .150 jump off the rifling. VLD bullets can be sensitive to seating depth and it has been found that these bullets shoot best in a COAL “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a COAL range that is usually .030 to .040 wide.


The quickest way to find this sweet spot is to load ammo at four different COAL. Start with a COAL that allows the bullet to touch the rifling. The next COAL needs to be .040 off the lands. The third COAL needs to be .080 off the lands. The last COAL needs to be .120 off the lands. One of these COAL will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. It has been reported that the VLD bullets don’t group as well at 100 yards but get better as the bullet “goes to sleep” at further ranges. We have learned that by doing the four COAL test you will find a COAL where the VLD bullets will group well at 100 yards. Once the COAL that shoots best is established you can tweak +/- .005 or .010 to increase precision or you can adjust powder charges and other load variables. Frankly, those who do the four COAL test usually are happy with the results they get from this test alone.

Thanks for the great response to seating depth, I have wrestled with that more than I care to admit

 

[barefooter56]

You are very welcome! Thank you all for using our bullets!

 

[Texas10]

Always a good practice to check the fit of a new bullet to the seating stem. If it wobbles around and not a good fit, try a different one. Many die manufacturers offer a variety of stems, and some will ship to you without charge. A call to their customer service is usually quite productive.