VIHTAVUORI powdeer for 6.5 creedmoor

[yura.odessit]

Hello everyone. I am purchasing 6.5 creedmoor rifle and need your advice with starting load with VIHTAVUORI powder. All the Hodgon powders sold out and my only option on powder valley is VIHTAVUORI. Because its more expensive over others powders there are some available. I am planning to use Hornady AMAX Bullets 6.5mm 140 gr. So far whats left available is N160 ,N165, N140, N310, N340, N350, N530, N540, N560, N570. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Laurie]

I've found N150 is suited to the 260 Rem / 6.5mm HCM class of 6.5s, although I prefer lighter bullets so have more experience with it under the 123gn Scenar. N140 and 540 will work too with 120s and heavier. N160/560/165/170/570 are a bit too slow burning (far too slow burning for the 170 range) even with 140s IMHO, and you'll be into heavily compressed loads before you get anywhere near full MVs.

N300 series powders are all pistol/revolver types and unsuited to 6.5mm Creedmoor size rifle cartridges loaded with jacketed bullets.

 

[kyreloader]

On the Hodgdon burn chart, #111 is N150 and #114 is H4350 which Hornady loads in their loads for the Creedmoor.

That is where I would start.

VV website list reloads with N140, N150, N540, N550 with 136/139g bullets for loads in 6.5x47 which should get you started.

 

[yura.odessit]

Shot the my rifle finally today with n135 and 100 gr A-Max. The best group 37.2 grains can be covered with a dime. Attached a picture of a 5 shot group with one flyer which is my mistake

 

[22BRGUY]

Just opinion but I'd try N160. Theres something to be said for a full case of slow burning powder provided it can get you up to a velocity node you'd accept. What is your barrel length?

 

[spclark]

The N3xx powders are for pistol loads mostly - don't ruin a day at the range using them in your new 6.5 Creedmoor please.

I'd suggest N150/160 first with the 140's you want to use. N140's a tad fast for anything over ~ 120 grains but as that's all they have (same goes for the N5XX products) you may be best off starting with lighter bullets & something you can actually buy.

 

[yura.odessit]

I have 28 inch barrel. Here is a data ran through Quick load:
Case capacity and propellant properties may vary considerably from lot to lot!

**** Input data: Date: 13-Apr-2013 Time: 19:03:38
Cartridge................. = 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Projectile type........... = .264, 140, Hornady A-MAX 26332 with boattail

Max.avg.pressure(Piezo )= 60191 psi Shot start / init pressure = 3626 psi
Projectile weight (gr)= 140 Groove caliber (in)= 0.264
Length of cartridge (in)= 2.810 Length of case (in)= 1.920
Case capacity(Grains Water)= 50.50 Length of projectile (in)= 1.375
Length of barrel (in)= 28.000
**** Values calculated:
Seating depth (in)= 0.485 Volume displaced (gn H2O)= 6.26
Comb.chamber volume(gn H2O)= 44.24 Projectile travel (in)= 26.565
**** Input data:
Propellant type........... = Vihtavuori N160
Charge weight..........(gr)= 42.5 Load density......(g/cu.cm)= 0.959
Heat of Explosion (cal/lb)= 392193 Ratio of spec. heats cp/cv = 1.242
Solid density (gr/cu.in)= 402.1 Weighting factor...........= 0.5
Burning rate factor Ba(1/s)= 0.466 Pro-/degressivity factor a = 0.352
Burning limit ......... z1 = 0.5 Combust.Chamber Vb(ft³)= 1.01432E-4
Factor.................. b = 1.451 X-S.Area of Bore A(ft²)= 3.723386E-4
Bulk density (gr/cu.in)= 223.0 Projectile mass mp (lb)= 1.999966E-2
Loading ratio (%)= 108.7 Projectile travel x(ft)= 2.213747E+0

**** Results calculated:
Maximum pressure ........ = 54693 psi Way of projectile at Pmax = 1.59 in
Muzzle velocity ......Ve = 2729 fps Muzzle pressure .......Pe = 7503 psi
Project. energy at muzzle = 2315 ft.lbs Fraction of powder burnt = 96.7 %
Projectile travel time from 10% Pmax to muzzle = 1.38 ms

WARNING: Near Maximum Average Pressure - tolerances can cause dangerous pressures !
Real maximum of pressure inside barrel.
End of combustion after the projectile passes muzzle.

 

[22BRGUY]

Great info...How about 560 and 165 comparable info?

 

[yura.odessit]

Here is some more
Case capacity and propellant properties may vary considerably from lot to lot!

**** Input data: Date: 16-Apr-2013 Time: 16:42:16
Cartridge................. = 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Projectile type........... = .264, 100, Hornady SP 2610 with flatbase

Max.avg.pressure(Piezo )= 60191 psi Shot start / init pressure = 3626 psi
Projectile weight (gr)= 100 Groove caliber (in)= 0.264
Length of cartridge (in)= 2.655 Length of case (in)= 1.920
Case capacity(Grains Water)= 52.80 Length of projectile (in)= 0.982
Length of barrel (in)= 28.000
**** Values calculated:
Seating depth (in)= 0.247 Volume displaced (gn H2O)= 3.42
Comb.chamber volume(gn H2O)= 49.38 Projectile travel (in)= 26.327
**** Input data:
Propellant type........... = Vihtavuori N135
Charge weight..........(gr)= 40.0 Load density......(g/cu.cm)= 0.808
Heat of Explosion (cal/lb)= 388942 Ratio of spec. heats cp/cv = 1.240
Solid density (gr/cu.in)= 397.0 Weighting factor...........= 0.5
Burning rate factor Ba(1/s)= 0.575 Pro-/degressivity factor a = 1.830
Burning limit ......... z1 = 0.5 Combust.Chamber Vb(ft³)= 1.132086E-4
Factor.................. b = 1.963 X-S.Area of Bore A(ft²)= 3.723358E-4
Bulk density (gr/cu.in)= 210.9 Projectile mass mp (lb)= 1.428571E-2
Loading ratio (%)= 96.9 Projectile travel x(ft)= 2.193898E+0

**** Results calculated:
Maximum pressure ........ = 51291 psi Way of projectile at Pmax = 2.17 in
Muzzle velocity ......Ve = 3133 fps Muzzle pressure .......Pe = 6769 psi
Project. energy at muzzle = 2179 ft.lbs Fraction of powder burnt = 100 %
Projectile travel time from 10% Pmax to muzzle = 1.25 ms

Real maximum of pressure inside barrel.
End of combustion before the projectile passes muzzle.

Case capacity and propellant properties may vary considerably from lot to lot!

 

[yura.odessit]

One more

**** Input data: Date: 16-Apr-2013 Time: 16:45:02
Cartridge................. = 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Projectile type........... = .264, 120, Hornady GMX 26110 with boattail

Max.avg.pressure(Piezo )= 60191 psi Shot start / init pressure = 3626 psi
Projectile weight (gr)= 120 Groove caliber (in)= 0.264
Length of cartridge (in)= 2.670 Length of case (in)= 1.920
Case capacity(Grains Water)= 52.80 Length of projectile (in)= 1.300
Length of barrel (in)= 28.000
**** Values calculated:
Seating depth (in)= 0.550 Volume displaced (gn H2O)= 7.41
Comb.chamber volume(gn H2O)= 45.39 Projectile travel (in)= 26.630
**** Input data:
Propellant type........... = Vihtavuori N135
Charge weight..........(gr)= 37.8 Load density......(g/cu.cm)= 0.831
Heat of Explosion (cal/lb)= 388942 Ratio of spec. heats cp/cv = 1.240
Solid density (gr/cu.in)= 397.0 Weighting factor...........= 0.5
Burning rate factor Ba(1/s)= 0.575 Pro-/degressivity factor a = 1.830
Burning limit ......... z1 = 0.5 Combust.Chamber Vb(ft³)= 1.040738E-4
Factor.................. b = 1.963 X-S.Area of Bore A(ft²)= 3.723358E-4
Bulk density (gr/cu.in)= 210.9 Projectile mass mp (lb)= 1.714286E-2
Loading ratio (%)= 99.6 Projectile travel x(ft)= 2.219167E+0

**** Results calculated:
Maximum pressure ........ = 58671 psi Way of projectile at Pmax = 1.85 in
Muzzle velocity ......Ve = 2930 fps Muzzle pressure .......Pe = 6315 psi
Project. energy at muzzle = 2287 ft.lbs Fraction of powder burnt = 100 %
Projectile travel time from 10% Pmax to muzzle = 1.28 ms

 

[spclark]

That other thread here on RL-15 being available (in 1 lb. size for $20.99) makes me wonder if that'd be a worthwhile choice? Might be a bit fast though, not unlike N140/540. Closest on Alliant's load guide is maybe 260 Rem & with 140 soft point it's RL17/19/22 for the one load suggested. .30-30 & 150 flat-nose shows 34 grains RL-15, 2,150 fps... not quite close to what you'd be expecting.

Run that thru QL & let us know.

 

[22BRGUY]

My understanding of the 500 series of VV powders is that they can give up to a 10% increase in velocity with the same powder charge, without that gain in pressure. Any of you that want are welcome to correct/ clarify me on this please do. That idea leads me to think that either 550 or 560 might show really well here in the Creedmoor.
Thanks all for good post and info.

 

[Laurie]

They'll not give 10% higher MV in any cartridge, that's getting on for 200-300 fps in 308 Win type numbers! The
260 Rem is the closest cartridge ballistically to the 6.5 Creedmoor in Viht's data, but it has a very limited dataset and doesn't allow sensible comparisons between N100 and N500 serioes. So .... taking the 308 Win instead as an example with its data for 175gn Sierra MK / Berger VLD bullets:

N140 = 2,501 fps
N540 = 2,586 fps

N150 = 2,573 fps
N550 = 2,631 fps

And ..... it won't do that with same charge weights either. eg N150 as above = 43.5gn Max; N550 = 45.8gn Max.

The N500 versions are slightly, sometimes significantly slower burning than their untreated base versions. Having had NG molecules infused into the base NC granules, that adds weight / density so you get heavier charges into space limited cases, sometimes a big advanatage and often the largest contributor to any significant MV improvement.

As with any D-B powder, you'll reduce barrel life far more than you'll increase MV if you use all the extra performance on offer. D-B powders are also sometimes more temperature sensitive than than their S-B base versions. In the early days of F/TR we used N540 in UK national level competition to get 155s up 3,100 fps, even 3,150 fps safely from 30-32 inch barrels in 308W. We also saw some of these same barrels junked at less than 1,500 rounds at these pressures and temperatures. Result: a big switch back to single-base N100 series powders.

If you want a D-B powder that really ramps this cartridge's MVs up, especiall;y with the 140s, I'd suggest Alliant Re17. The warnings about barrel life apply here too - in spades! So far as Viht powders go, I'll repeat what I said several posts back, try N150. N160 is too slow burning IMO. N550 will give you maybe 100 extra fps over N150.