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vihtauvori users out there?

any of you 223 long range guys using vihtauvori powders for the heavies like 80gr and above? 540 and 140 seem to show promise according to Quick Load and the manufacturers information.

If you have tried these powders but don't use them, could you tell me why.

I have read about carbon rings associated with N140, so that might be the "why" with it.
Thanks
Jerry
 
any of you 223 long range guys using vihtauvori powders for the heavies like 80gr and above? 540 and 140 seem to show promise according to Quick Load and the manufacturers information.

If you have tried these powders but don't use them, could you tell me why.

I have read about carbon rings associated with N140, so that might be the "why" with it.
Thanks
Jerry
I use N140 in my Palma loads. Yes, after a match it takes some effort to get the carbon out of the barrel but I can't imagine that any of the other commonly used propellants (Varget, H4895) are going to be much different. Maybe CF223(?); I have not used that nor the more recent IMR offerings. Every aspect of long range competition requires a healthy dose of patience.
Tom Alves
 
Here are a few things I learned about shooting N540 for years.
~ N540 performs exceptionally well at max loads
~ I saw the best groups combined with velocity when I shot moly. Cannot speak to other coatings
~ N540 performed the best with CCI450 primers
~ If you're able to find that next level node of small groups & speed, your brass will be one and done
~ There are fast and then exceptionally fast lots of powder
~ N540 is expensive as all get-out!

Jon
 
Over years of shooting heavies (88s, 90s, 95s) from .223 Rem F-TR rifles, at one time or another I have tried Varget, H4895, N140, Benchmark, 8208 XBR, IMR 4166, and H322. In my hands, none of them come close to H4895 in terms of pure precision, or in terms of velocity in a tuned load. Of course, the trade-off for that can be brass life if you're pushing them hard.

For the OP, N140 generated velocities fairly close to those of Varget on a per charge weight basis, but I found the transition to over-pressure conditions to be very abrupt with N140. However, N140 seems to work quite well in .308 heavy bullet applications. More recently, I have noticed .223 Rem heavy bullet shooters using N135 with what appear to be excellent results, but I have not tried it myself. There are also a few F-TR shooters that have used N150 in this application. In general, any of the powders I have listed here could probably be made to work acceptably. In other words, the list of powders that will work for this application is pretty generous. The primary difference will be in the final velocity of tuned loads, although some of the powders also seem to provide slightly better precision than others. So with the current difficulties of obtaining reloading components, I'd start with whatever powders you actually have that fall into the burn rate range from slightly slower than Varget up to about H322.

Edited to add: any of these powders can cause a carbon ring; I have not found one to be noticeably worse in terms of carbon fouling than another. Proper cleaning technique using a bronze brush should take care of that, anyhow.
 
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I've used N-550 in my Highpower/Long Range loads and have been satisfied with it, but Reloder 15.5 is replacing it - higher load density, slightly slower so it's perfect for heavies in a long barrel and gives me higher velocity at sane pressures. In a short barrel (20" service rifle) RL-15/N540 is probably the way to go.
 
I use N140 in my service rifle. I shoot 24.5gr behind a mag length berger 70gr VLD and a seated long berger 80gr VLD. This load actually throws out of a harrels pretty good. These loads absolutely hammer for XTC. If you drop points its your fault. It also seems to be the cleanest burning powder I have tried in my service rifle. I have used CFE223, IMR4895, and AA2520 in the past. N140 is the easy button right now.
 
Here are a few things I learned about shooting N540 for years.
~ N540 performs exceptionally well at max loads
~ I saw the best groups combined with velocity when I shot moly. Cannot speak to other coatings
~ N540 performed the best with CCI450 primers
~ If you're able to find that next level node of small groups & speed, your brass will be one and done
~ There are fast and then exceptionally fast lots of powder
~ N540 is expensive as all get-out!

Jon
Here's what I learned:
~It's really expensive, even if it does what you need it to do.
~It's often unavailable, REALLY unavailable compared to other unavailable powders. You can't rely on getting it even in good times.

Because of the above, I have suspended use of VV powders.

Danny
 
I hadn't seen this news before, but just when you thought powder choices couldn't get worse, comes this from Randy Bimson, Handloader magazine:
 

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Loving N550 in my 22GT with 85.5 and 90smk... Great speed without pressure and excellent accuracy...

28" Bartlein 5R 1:7.5 0.218 HV
22GT 0.169FB reamer
Bighorn TL3 / XLR Envy JV Pro Comp / BnA TacSport Pro 2stage
Alpha OCD / CCI 450


qV04WX9.jpg





90smk / N550 OCW


hNdhi2o.jpg



85.5 / N550 OCW


 
any of you 223 long range guys using vihtauvori powders for the heavies like 80gr and above? 540 and 140 seem to show promise according to Quick Load and the manufacturers information.

If you have tried these powders but don't use them, could you tell me why.

I have read about carbon rings associated with N140, so that might be the "why" with it.
Thanks
Jerry
N135 I’ve used in heavy 223, not 140. It shoots at mid 23s charge wt.

Don't sweat the carbon ring, just stay on top with Iosso or JB.
 
Thanks for all the info. I have a bunch of 135 that I am using in an 8 twist pushing 69 HPBT. Great accrucey and close to single diget SD, which seems hard to get in a 223.
Quickload and Viht info didn't show N135 as a qreat option for the 80 plus bullets, so I wasn't going to try it. But now I am going to give it a try as more than one of you have stated good results. I have a 7 twist and a bunch of 80.5 and 85.5s
Thanks again for all your responses. I learn so much from all of you who are willing to share your knowledge and experiences. Some great people on this forum
 
Thanks for all the info. I have a bunch of 135 that I am using in an 8 twist pushing 69 HPBT. Great accrucey and close to single diget SD, which seems hard to get in a 223.
Quickload and Viht info didn't show N135 as a qreat option for the 80 plus bullets, so I wasn't going to try it. But now I am going to give it a try as more than one of you have stated good results. I have a 7 twist and a bunch of 80.5 and 85.5s
Thanks again for all your responses. I learn so much from all of you who are willing to share your knowledge and experiences. Some great people on this forum
Be sure to work up as N135 can pierce primers in some rifles as you get near 23.5. Start probably mid 22s or less.
 
Quickload and Viht info didn't show N135 as a qreat option for the 80 plus bullets, so I wasn't going to try it. But now I am going to give it a try as more than one of you have stated good results. I have a 7 twist and a bunch of 80.5 and 85.5s

The late Glen Zediker mentions N135 in his original book, The Competitive AR15 as it was one of the first Viht grades imported into the US and was initially adopted by many 223 XTC shooters. He noted though that it later fell out of fashion and saw very little use with the 80gn SMK after many users suffered pressure induced problems, and those who stuck with Viht powders moved to N140 after it began to be imported into the US.

Having loaded 223 with everything from 53s to 90s over 20+ years and used Viht grades for over 30 years (we in the UK got them many years before the first can went across the Atlantic), I wouldn't advise this grade as first choice with heavy bullets in the cartridge if N140/540 are available. I won't say 'never' as individual barrels and chambers continuously surprise in this respect.

I just tested it recently with 77s seated out in a c. 150 thou' FB min-SAAMI 223 F-Class rifle and MVs were high, but overall performance poorer than VGT, H4895, Re15/Norma 203-B, N140 and 540. Also QuickLOAD is WAY out and seriously underestimates pressures / MVs, therefore overestimates useable / safe loads.
 
Here's what I learned:
~It's really expensive, even if it does what you need it to do.
~It's often unavailable, REALLY unavailable compared to other unavailable powders. You can't rely on getting it even in good times.

Because of the above, I have suspended use of VV powders.

Danny
I used to not use Viht powder because of what you said above but in the last 6 months the price is on par with Hodgenand Alliant powders and alot more available, atleast in my neck of the woods.
 

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