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velocity dip.

Well I was curious if anyone could explain a velocity dip?

I did two different load test on the same powder, same bullet, same primers.
Velocity was consistent in both tests.

I ended up picking 3 different loads to work on that were .2 gn apart.

46.2 average 3150fps
46.4 average 3125
46.6 average 3175

The load in the middle showed a drop in velocity both times compared to the ones on either side. The center one grouped very well. But what is the explanation on why there is a dip? Again it happened twice through the same powder charge. So i know I didn't just weigh the powder wrong twice.

Suggestions.

xdeano
 
No explanations from all you brilliant reloading people out there. Not even a guess? I know it has to have something to do with harmonics.

xdeano
 
I get those from time to time, what I have experienced is several thing possible.

#1 Your powder scale is jacked up YES! scales most use are not the most accurate
#2 Your chrono is mis-reading YES! most chronos are not 100% You should shoot strings of 5 and take the avg
Loose case neck retention
Primer seating
bullet variations
warm or cold chamber
case head space
etc------------

I shoot everything over the chrono and look for a SD below "10" I have loaded 100 rounds to a SD of "8" after a few firings (4-7) I went to a SD of 21 sometimes a sign of worn cases.

I have a AR-10 in 308 that beats the crap out of the necks and leaves ejector marks so when I get those kind of variations in VEL I retire that case.
I hope this may help you
 
I have experienced the dips before. I don't have my notes in front of me, but I believe my best accuracy is usually the load right before the dip.
 
What you've experienced is very common. I doubt very much if it has anything to do with harmonics by which I'm assuming you mean barrel and action vibrations. They affect group size rather than MV spreads and determine which pressure / MV combinations / ranges are countered by barrel movements to give the same POI.

A 0.2gn charge weight change is very small in relation to c. 46gn, and there are several factors at work. First, scale accuracy as beam scales and most handloaders' electronic scales are only advertised as being accurate to plus or minus 0.1gn. So if you're at the top end of the 46.2gn tolerance, and the bottom end of 46.4gn, you've loaded two lots with 46.3gn. Moreover, unless you keep your head and eye position in relation to beam scales absolutely constant by referencing the view in some way at the start of the session and ensuring it is repeated each time you look at the beam position, you can add another 0.1gn or more variation into your loads causing the potential variance to exceed your planned weight change.

Then too, smallarms cartridges often produce much larger pressure variations than you'd expect. The only manual I've seen that show this is Any Shot You Want, the A-Square reloading manual. Here's what it gives for .308 Winchester, 180gn Nosler Ballistic Tip and IMR-4064 in CUP units:

41.0gn: ..... avg 42,500 CUP ...... SD 4,700 ....... ES 10,100
44.0gn: ..... avg 55,800 CUP ...... SD 2,800 ....... ES 7,100
45.0gn: ..... avg 59,900 CUP ...... SD 1,800 ....... ES 4,100

With so much potential variation in strings of test shots, a mere 0.2gn charge increase over 46.2gn, only 0.43%, can be lost in the statistical noise of other such factors. Note the starting load and its relatively low pressures produces the largest variations which reduce as the cartridge and powder achieve full working pressures. This is a 'bad example' but every load shown in the manual sees some significant pressure variation.

Dr Geoff Kolbe founder and proprietor of Border Barrels, former experimental research physicist and an internal ballistics expert also describes rifles and their cartridges as suffering from 'non-linear effects'. Unlike large calibre cannon and artillery where designers accurately computer-model the effects of individual and combined changes such as projectile weight and shape, propellant characteristics, barrel and rifling design etc to produce a compromise that meets the desired ballistic objectives, Dr Kolbe says that a small change in one aspect of rifle cartridge design can upset the applecart on all the rest. Also a change to one aspect like propellant charge weight on its own may or may not provide linear results, and may even produce them up to point X, but with a different result's graph line following from there when that point is passed. In rifle cartridge handloading terms, your results might not be duplicated with a different bullet or with the same bullet at a different seating depth and so on!

The science of smallarms cartridges powder charge ignition and burn is shall we say 'an inexact one'. Thanks to the BR and PPC, many people believe as an near act of faith the short, fat, sharp shoulder case shape gives greater pressure and ballistics consistency than those with same capacity but long thin cases and shallow shoulders. Yet the .300 H&H Magnum which has everything wrong about its shape gives as good, often better, ES and SD values than the identical capacity, identical SAAMI PMax .300WSM with its much 'better' shape when the same load combinations are used. It may be that whatever cartridge and bullet combination you're loading is marginally unhappy with 46.4gn for reasons that I doubt we'll ever know - or you're getting this result twice is simply a statistical quirk. Load up and chronograph enough cartridges and you see almost 'everything' sooner or later!

Finally, you don't quote the string size or the velocity variations around the average. In small test strings of 3 or even 5 shots, one that produces a small overall spread produces a much more useful arithmetical mean than a 'neighbour' with a larger spread.

eg let's say you fired 5 test shots at 46.2gn and every one produced 3,150 fps. The cartridge didn't like 46.4gn and/or the potential range of statistical spreads kicks in and your 5 shots run at 3,120, 3125, 3,155, 3,160 and 3,170 fps, the average drops below 46.2gn's result to 3,146 fps. Unlikely to get such a difference in 0.2gn and to get it twice, but still possible.

The overall message is not to bother about quirks like this - they happen. On the other hand, if 46.4gn gives consistently smaller or larger groups than 46.2 and 46.6gn, that is telling you something useful.
 
Laurie,

This is some good info.

Those loads were shot in a 5 shot string, and all of them had es/sd under 10fps. So they were very consistent over the chronograph.

I'm going to have to do another test on the same 3 loads. I know that my 46.6g load was a little over pressure, so i'll probably back it down to the 46.2 and 46.4g loads.

I won't worry about the little things then. Thanks Deano

jbpmidas,
I will agree with you on the 46.2g being pretty accurate. And this would be right before the dip in velocity.
More testing will tell the tail. Thanks.

Deano
 

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