Varget vs reloader 15

[rebs]

which is more prone to causing carbon problems /

 

[Bugs]

I'll be interested in hearing what other shooters have to say about this. My experience has been that RL15 gives you a lot of greasy black soot (but cleans up pretty easily) while Varget is more prone to give you the "hard" carbon.

 

[divingin]

I'll agree with Bugs, aside from the hard carbon part. For the powders I use, clean to dirty is N140, Varget, RL-15. This is using mid-range loads.

My cleaning routine (after 25 rds) is to push a wet patch down the (still warm) bore, then wet patches until almost white; after that go after copper. N140 takes 2 or 3 patches, the last of which is nearly white. Varget, maybe 3 to 4. RL-15 will give at least 4 jet black patches. A few to several more to get to gray. It's not hard stuff, but it is black.

I don't seem to have all that much trouble with hard carbon buildup (thankfully.)

 

[Alliant Reloading]

Some of the residue from Reloder(R) 15 is the decoppering agent doing it's job.

 

[K22]

While I've never used RL15, I have used a lot of Varget very successfully in several different calibers, i.e., 223 Rem, 243 Win, 22-250, and 308.

It seems to be a very versatile powder capable of producing fine accuracy for me so I would not let concern over carbon issues bother me. If you are concerned about carbon, it can be addressed quite easily by cleaning. Also today, with the shortages of components, Varget is a good option to have as a backup if RL 15 is not available. It also seems to be very temperature stable in the field.

Where I have seen a significant difference in a lot of carbon residue is with ball powders which I haven't used in probably over 25 years but not because of carbon issues, but because of temperature stability issues in the field.

Personally, I would prioritize performance over other issues when it comes to selecting a powder.

 

[MGYSGT]

My opinion only, but who cares. It's the one that works best in your barrel with the bullet you want to shoot.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Lots of R-15 in AR’s years back Not much Carbon problem as I recall .
These days Burn Varget in two Dashers .
Carbon is a pain in them.
Changed up my Cleaning routine to deal with it .

 

[ExPiney]

Changed up my Cleaning routine to deal with it .

Would you share your routine? I have a barrel that builds up hard carbon really quickly.

 

[RegionRat]

Some of the residue from Reloder(R) 15 is the decoppering agent doing it's job.

I noticed the similarity to the powders that are known to have the decoppering agents, but didn't catch the news when RE-15 had this added?

Can you comment on roughly when that was added to RE-15?
Forgive me being lazy, but since we are at it, does that mean the newer TS-15.5 also has decoppering additives?

The cleaning and patch counts being mentioned would have to be put into perspective if there is decoppering agent in the mix.

The loose decoppering residue isn't difficult to deal with compared to real stubborn build ups. And, if those decoppering residues did their job, the trade off is worth it if there is less copper fouling as a result.

Except for watching the accuracy performance in prairie dog shooting, where the round counts without cleaning get very high, competition round counts between cleaning don't get high enough for me to complain about the differences between powders.

 

[Oyster]

Have used both in my XTC AR and now just use Varget as it seems to have less temp sensitivity. Varget seems to leave a carbon ring so I clean the gun around every 200-300 rounds and use JB bore paste around 500 rounds or if the bore scope tells me it needs it.
Both accurate powders.

 

[rebs]

Thank you guys for the replies

 

[Longtrain]

IMO, most of the powders in the “Varget” burn rate, work really well in the cartridges that I shoot. As long as they perform, I clean until I’m satisfied. Small price to pay for precision shooting.
However, a High-Master buddy was once using H1000 in a 6mm Competition Match, he said the amount of powder fouling was immense. I would probably complain about that much a mess.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I noticed the similarity to the powders that are known to have the decoppering agents, but didn't catch the news when RE-15 had this added?

Can you comment on roughly when that was added to RE-15?
Forgive me being lazy, but since we are at it, does that mean the newer TS-15.5 also has decoppering additives?

The cleaning and patch counts being mentioned would have to be put into perspective if there is decoppering agent in the mix.

The loose decoppering residue isn't difficult to deal with compared to real stubborn build ups. And, if those decoppering residues did their job, the trade off is worth it if there is less copper fouling as a result.

Except for watching the accuracy performance in prairie dog shooting, where the round counts without cleaning get very high, competition round counts between cleaning don't get high enough for me to complain about the differences between powders.

My reloder 15.5 does have decoppering in it

 

[Dave M.]

which is more prone to causing carbon problems /

Hands down RL-15. I shoot a ton of it and I’d say it is one of the dirtier powders. But I don’t have a big issue with hard carbon deposits.
Dave

 

[Liven The Dream]

Would you share your routine? I have a barrel that builds up hard carbon really quickly.

Wipe Out , Kroil oil and the Blue Nylon Brush and JB .
I find JB and
Kroil on a Jag do well , then a wipe out shot .
Leave the Barrel with a lite coat of CLP or Rem oil.

 

[jpjulian]

When I was actively competing in Highpower I was going through 20 pounds of RL-15 a year. It works and works well. Who cares if it's dirty. That's what solvents, patches and brushes are for. I still use it in my bolt guns with 55 grain V-Maxs & Nosler BT's.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I once went a whole year not cleaning my space gun shooting Varget after Derrick Martin in his book said they did the same thing with r15.

 

[wwbrown]

I find Varget to less temperature sensitive than R 15, wait this is not an off-topic post.

The traditional method of reducing temperature sensitivity is to coat the granules with graphite. I have always thought that Varget had more graphite than R 15. What is graphite? Carbon.

I have no proof to what I have stated except for graphite being used as a means of reducing temperature sensitivity. I have not looked into what happens when graphite is exposed to high temperatures. There is a possibility that the crystalline structure of graphite does not change at these temperatures in that case it would not lead to a carbon ring.

 

[rijndael]

I find Varget to less temperature sensitive than R 15

Agreed, that's why I stopped using RL15.

 

[Alliant Reloading]

Can you comment on roughly when that was added to RE-15?

I'm not 100% certain exactly when we transitioned to decoppering in our Reloder powders, but I'm thinking the 2003 timeframe.
We were developing Reloder 10x at the time and Bofors approached us with their new patented technology for 10x. We thought it would be good for shooters across all the Reloder powders they produced, so we pulled the trigger at that time. Since then we have incorporated decoppering into all of the Swedish and Swiss Reloders, with the exception of Reloder 17.
You didn't miss any news flash on the addition RegionRat, because we did it as a behind the curtain product enhancement. Maybe if we had better marketing at the time we might have spun it up as some sort of world changing Copper Erasing Miracle, CEM or something like that. Swing and miss for us I guess...