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varget and ADI

I sent an email to ADI, who makes Varget, and here is the question and answer. Pretty much a no answer.

To whom it may concern:

I understand that you folks make the powder that is marketed under the name Varget. Is there a problem with either manufacturing or shipping this to the U.S.A? It is really becoming a reloading nightmare as this powder is used by most of us long range F class shooters. Is there a way to have it shipped directly from the manufacturer to us, the end user? Sorry if you get a lot of emails like this, but we cannot get a straight story from Hodgen or the dealers.

Thanks

Tony Smith











ENQUIRY REPLY












Date: 16/9/2013

Reference No: 5383

To: Tony Smith



Thank you for your enquiry of 15/9/2013 with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders.

The product marketed under the trade name, Varget, in North America is manufactured by
ADI-powders. Hodgdon Powder Company is the sole distributor of ADI-powders in North America and as
such all enquiries regarding supply of powder should be made directly to Hodgdon.

Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to our website at
www.adi-powders.com.au or our 6th edition handloaders’ guide for more information, warnings and
reloading safety.

We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders. Yours sincerely,




ADI Technical Centre


ADI is Australian Defense Industries
 
Yup - we make it.

Nope - we can't help you with anything else.

Too bad. :(

I was able to snag a few pounds from Natchez last week. It showed in stock at 10:32am MT time. It was completely gone by 10:58 MT.

It seems whenever it does show up it immediately is sold out and only a lucky few get what they need. I'm fortunate I was in that category this last shipment, but I barely have enough to get me through the end of this year.. No hope for next.
 
I do not represent ADI, but I can tell you that shipping powder is HIGHLY regulated. There are very few freight companies that will handle it. Then add in all the international licencing involved. I just do not see it as being viable for a firm to ship powder internationally to an individual.

If you think domestic US hazmat fees are steep, I hate to think what sort of premium would apply to shipping powder internationally to an individual.
 
Fergus said:
I do not represent ADI, but I can tell you that shipping powder is HIGHLY regulated. There are very few freight companies that will handle it. Then add in all the international licencing involved. I just do not see it as being viable for a firm to ship powder internationally to an individual.

If you think domestic US hazmat fees are steep, I hate to think what sort of premium would apply to shipping powder internationally to an individual.

Yes, absolutely right 100% !!

There's more to it than that - Google 'ADI Mulwala Facility' and you see specialist news reports and government documents that show the Australian government and ADI / Thales relationship is exceptionally complex, with a multimillion Australian dollar 13-year long major plant rebuilding and upgrade process that is part government funded and took a plant that had hardly been changed since its opening in 1942 now approaching an end.

Unlike the idiot UK government that sold off our arms and ammunition manufacturing facilities with no golden share retention, it's obvious that our cousins 'down under' still regard Mulwala as a 'strategic asset' - so just pray that Australia doesn't declare war on anybody anytime soon, or there won't be any Varget, nor any other ADI manufactured powders for the handloading or commercial sporting ammunition markets.

http://www.australiandefence.com.au/d6c17dc0-f806-11dd-8dfe0050568c22c9

http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/14319-adi-powders-history-believe-it-or-not/

I can't find the links, but there have been Australian press stories published too about major environmental concerns in Australia about the pre-investment Mulwala plant, and local groups close to the exit port have tried to stop propellants for export being transported to the docks and stored there waiting shipment on 'safety grounds'. Look at the recent history of the Commonwealth of Australia / ADI tie-up and it was a close-run thing for powder manufacturing to continue in Australia at all as it looked back in 2001-2003.

This ties in with other themes. If you feel hard done by over powder shortages, perhaps you want to look a bit closer to home in the US at the actions of Uncle Sam re strategic defence industries, coupled to the behaviours of individual Americans every time there is a perceived threat to gun ownership and the shooting sports. The long and the short of it is that since ALL western governments, maybe Switzerland excepted, have decided that ammunition components and finished item manufacture is no longer a government responsibility .... and that the free market will always supply what's needed ........... and that governments won't pay a cent, penny, centime or whatever to retain a 'strategic capacity', the balance of supply and demand is now so finely balanced, some would say imbalanced with near permanent supply shortages, that ANY increase in demand will cause shortages. So, itsy-bitsy little wars in Afghanistan and elsewhere (no offence meant to US or British vets who'll view these conflicts otherwise, but I doubt if the allies use in a year what was used in a day back in the Pacific or Normandy in 1944), allied to a bit (lot?) of panic buying post Sandy Hook sees inevitable and serious shortages of powders, primers and more.

Here's what I wrote about this another related post a while back, to save me doing a lot of two-finger typing:

But, there are deeper reasons too to do with the nature of explosives manufacturing and defence industry ownership. The place that makes Pyrodex aside, the US has only one propellants factory left - the former Olin Corp ball powder maker, now called St. Marks Powder Co. near the the town of St. Marks FLA. Like every other significant powder manufacturer it's one cog in a multinational's operation. in this case General Dynamics Ordnance division.

St. Marks makes all Hodgdon's 'spherical' grade powders including some pistol grades like Titegroup that you might not think of as 'ball'. St. Marks has a good steady base operation in that it has supplied the majority of propellants to Uncle Sam for his smallarms ammo for over half a century. When the US adopted the 7.62mm M80 in the 1950s, it took a decision to only use ball powders, and that applies today right through the 5.56mm era, even though the former DuPont corporation developed the propellants for the original .223 Rem / 5.56mm and the AR-15 was built around the pressures they produced.

All Hodgdon extruded powders come from Thales / ADI in Australia and the partnership has worked out VERY well for all parties. The Hogdon range has doubled - at least! - since I started handloading, and the pair have been very innovative in improving powder characteristics and behaviours, such as the Xtreme temperature tolerance. BUT ... remember that handloaders are small beer to propellants manufacturers whose main business is supplying powders in bulk to the ammunition manufacturers, especially for military orders. Moreover, 'canister powders' mean a lot of extra work and expense to the manufacturer, packager / distributor as (unlike the bulk commercial orders) the burning characteristics must be kept the same or close from lot to lot if necessary by blending the outputs of different factory production lots. 1lb / 8lb packaging and the high costs of distributing small quantities of hazardous materials add enormously to workloads and costs.

Finally though, there is the SAFETY aspect. Nobody makes extruded (stick) powders in the US and haven't done so for many years, likewise the UK and many other western countries. IMR powders are mostly made in Canada, Alliant rifle powders in either Sweden (Bofors) or Switzerland (Nitro-Chemie). Many old plants went back to WW1 were out of date, but worse built close to villages and towns that expanded throughout the 20th century until their suburbs ran up to the explosive factories' boundaries. As safety rules were tightened, it was deemed totally inappropriate to have people living so close to dangerous manufacturing activities - the houses didn't go, the manufacturers did!

Then ... ball powder manufacture is inherently safe until its final stages when the little balls are precipitated out of a solution in a still. Until that point, the ingredients are made up in nonflammable, nonexplosive water based slurries and piped from one process to another. Extruded powders on the other hand start out by nitrating wood or cotton fibres producing 'guncotton' a fierce, unstable, and violent explosive. The remainder of the processes involve altering the explosive's chemical structure and burning characteristics by adding and extracting solvents or other inflammable / explosive agents which are themselves dangerous. The result is that this type of powder is more expensive and dangerous to make, and modern health and safety rules virtually rule out its manufacture in many countries. A contact in the US powder business once told me that your EPA requirements on making such powders haven't banned it, just made it so expensive and restrictive that you'd never sell a pound of US made extruded powder.

There is a final, and VERY important factor. Powders were mostly made in government plants outside of the US, and even here they were made by two or three large combines (primarily Olin and DuPont) who were very close to the military procurement people. Since the 1980s, all western governments have got out of the arms manufacturing business and where private suppliers were previously used moved to much more distant arms-length arrangements with completely open tendering etc. The view is that 'the free market will supply the best deal'. The trouble is that demand changes dramatically in this field from year to year depending on whether you're fighting a war of not, and private companies won't keep large amounts of spare capacity standing by for purely 'strategic reasons'. This is a major reason for the periodic serious shortages of some components over the last 20 years, especially primers. Right now, government demand is on the way down as the UK, USA, and NATO pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq so supplies should be plentiful, but they're not for two reasons.

First, ammunition manufacturing capacity has been reduced too much by private companies (or not increased enough to take the place of closed government factories), hence the recent Bulletin story about Remington Arms' huge expansion of its Lonoke AR facility. Second, and more important, the panic buying and hoarding that's going on after the Sandy Hook school shootings. This is the second such event in recent years, the first being fears that the newly elected President Barak Obama would introduce gun ownership and handloading controls after his initial inauguration four/five years ago. No suppliers irrespective of where they're situated, whether in downtown Burbank or Outer Mongolia could cope with the panicked demand that good old American Joe Shooting Public has created here out of his/her own fears. Here's what the Forum Boss wrote after speaking to major suppliers Brunos recently ...............................


So, what's the answer? First, 'you', ie Joe US or UK Public has to start behaving a LOT more responsibly in its buying habits. Failing that, I suggest you investigate setting up your own propellant manufacturing plant. With US, likewise UK health & safety legislation and codes of practice, I'd suggest the US EPA, in our case the UK HSE, would be a useful first port of call. After hearing what they say on the subject, only a very rich, very determined ... some would say very stupid .... person or company would bother making any at all never mind supplying enough to cope with panic buying episodes.
 
With the supposed panic buying it brings one thing to mind. Is someone or some entity buying it up before the general public is?????? The possibility is there if you think homeland security or our government wanting to stockpile under the radar to build up enough supplys to be ready for the next war or whatever. These are just theorys but it is possible. I have a friend who is close friends with a minister who was shopping at a mom pop gun store in alabama and as he was perusing the shelf of powders and such a well dressed fella asked him what he was looking for.He replied varget and .22 rimfire ammo. The well dressed fella said dont bother we here at homeland security are buying it up before anyone else for awhile for our needs as we cant get enough.I dont know if it is bindingly true or not but it sure makes sense if we cant find enough,uncle sam may be in the same bind.I sincerely hope it is just nonsense but with todays economy anything is possible.I just hope it is over in the next year,but after what happened at the naval shipyard today it will most likely get worse as people who are panicky to begin with will probably keep hoarding.
 
I've found it at gun shows the one last weekend had 1 seller with 2 8lb jugs (220.00 a piece) and about 6 1 lb cans (35.00 a piece) and I picked up 4 -1lb cans at bass pro shops. but the price is a lot higher than say powder valley charges (when they get it ) .

rl-15 is non existing around here.
 

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