Using small pistol primers in 28g shotgun hulls?

[curious_reloader]

Hi forgive me if this has been discussed already. I'm brand new to reloading:

I have a 28 gauge shotgun, and want to get into reloading 28 gauge shells for it. Either brass or plastic hulls.

I want to use small pistol primers, not large pistol primers. From what I've seen, the shells available only accept large pistol primers. Is there any manufacturer that makes 28 gauge, or any gauge hulls for that matter that accept small pistol primers? I realize this could be experimental, but is there any technical reason that small pistol primers wouldn't work?

Thanks for any responses!

 

[KMart]

What kind/ maker of hulls are you using? Are they brass? I never saw a shotgun shell that took a pistol primer,
All shotgun shells that I have reloaded have used a 209 size shotgun primer. I have no clue what primer is used in brass hulls.
Update
Upon checking the brass Magtec hulls, they do take large pistol primers. I would say that small pistol primers would be a no go.
All plastic and paper shotgun shells take 209 primers.

 

[No manches"]

^^^^^^ what he said is true!

 

[DocCarbon]

WTH ?? Pistol or rifle primers in shotshells , AH DIDN'T ever happen in any of MY hull's .

Shot shell primers are larger for a reason !.

 

[bozo699]

WTH ?? Pistol or rifle primers in shotshells , AH DIDN'T ever happen in any of MY hull's .

Shot shell primers are larger for a reason !.

Magtec brass hulls use Large pistol primers.
Wayne

 

[1shot]

Well I'll be darned! Learned something new today!

Lloyd

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

I'll bet you will have no trouble swapping your small pistol for large pistol!

Frank

 

[Bill K]

Curious Reloader. First thing you want to do, especially being a new reloader, is get a couple reloading manuals, center fire/Rifle/pistol and some of reloading shot shells and read them.
Shot shells use #209 primers, not small or large primers, designed for rifle/pistol cartridges. Except in rare occasions.
The manual explain the in and outs on reloading and also have load data and suggestions of powder and type of primer to use.

 

[bozo699]

Curious Reloader. First thing you want to do, especially being a new reloader, is get a couple reloading manuals, center fire/Rifle/pistol and some of reloading shot shells and read them.
Shot shells use #209 primers, not small or large primers, designed for rifle/pistol cartridges. Except in rare occasions.
The manual explain the in and outs on reloading and also have load data and suggestions of powder and type of primer to use.

Absolutely!….. read read READ!……
The internet is great but there can be a lot of false info out there!….not so much on here this is by far the best forum on the web and if someone was to stear ya the wrong way there would be several to correct the statement!…..
I for sure before you ever attempt to load those brass hulls you definitely do some reading and research!…. Reloading can be a very rewarding, satisfying and relaxing hobby!… it can also be very dangerous so be careful and do as Bill suggested buy some loading manuals and read
Wayne

 

[jds holler]

Shot shell primers are larger for a reason !.

I'm in a constant quest for knowledge. I'd like to know exactly the reason for the size and structure of shotgun primers. -- Why were they made different than standard metallic cartridge primers??

 

[AWS]

Take this for what it's worth and I'm not recommending it or even advocating trying it.

When I was in Taiwan, local market hunters were hard pressed to buy shotshells and would reload with pull off mortar powder bags and would recharge the primers, crunched up newspaper for wads. I believe they told me they would recharge the primers with rifle primers. That was 55 yrs ago. They might have been using the smaller #57 primers. We paid them for guiding with boxes of factory shotshell ammo.

It would be far easier and cheaper to just purchase 209 shotshell primers. Our local Walmart has 28ga ammo on the shelf and reload your once fired shells.

Ballistic Products has 209 primers in stock.

Shotshell Primers-ballisticproducts.com

 

[DocCarbon]

I'm in a constant quest for knowledge. I'd like to know exactly the reason for the size and structure of shotgun primers. -- Why were they made different than standard metallic cartridge primers??

Excellent question , I'm just not certain as to the difference but will give You and educated guess .
I will tell You about #38 years ago ,with the introduction of plastic shotshell hulls ,a standardization for primer size was needed and Winchester 209 became that standard ,beating out CCi and others from their 157 size .

Shotshell primer dimensions and other common knowledge factors .

The Shotshell primer slurry is significantly different than Rifle or Pistol matrix . As the shotshell has it's load spread out more than a pistol or rifle cartridge and runs significantly LESS pressures ( generally flake wafer powders more air less actual powder in a confined space ) ,it would stand to reason it's Brisance is greater but pressure is significantly lessened as a result of ignition .


Hottest to mildest supposedly
1. Rem 209 STS,
2. CCI 209,
3. Winchester 209,
4. Noble Sport 209,
5. Cheddite 209,
6. Fiocchi 209,
7. CCI 209M,
8. Federal 209A

.240 = Rem.





.241 = CCI, Fed,





.242 = Nobel Sport, Win, Wolf,





.243 = Cheddite, Fiocchi,





.244 = Rio.





These dimensions are from an article by Tom Ceretto in Trapshooting USA, issue 4, page 50, Nov/Dec 2009


Borrowed this tidbit :

Remington STS - 209's


Length - 0.2930


Diameter - 0.2395 ... just below rim





Winchester - Western - 209's


Length - 0.3030


Diameter - 0.2435 ... just below rim


So, if your once fired hulls have loose primer pockets, use the Winchesters with the larger diameter





And if you have any Remington 57's ... They were used only for old Remington SP cases that were plastic with a fiber "base" wad. About 30+ years old


Length - 0.2940


Diameter - 0.2275 ... just below rim

Here are some Hodgdon numbers. The only thing changed in the two shot weight loads is the primer.


1-1/8 oz Test


Primer Velocity Pressure
Win.AATP 1176 fps 11,200 PSI
Fed.209A 1172 fps 11,100 PSI
Win.209 1173 fps 10,900 PSI
Fio.616 1171 fps 10,800 PSI
CCI209M 1171 fps 10,400 PSI
Rem.209P 1157 fps 8,500 PSI
CCI209 1162 fps 8,400 PSI


Now look at a
7/8 oz Test


Primer Velocity Pressure
Win.209 1214 fps 10,300 PSI
CCI209M 1217 fps 10,200 PSI
Fed.209A 1195 fps 9,100 PSI
Fio.616 1196 fps 9,000 PSI
Win.AATP 1191 fps 8,400 PSI
Rem.209P 1187 fps 8,200 PSI
CCI209 1180 fps 7,700 PSI


Note that as the payload weight changes, the effect of different primers changes. It is not consistent. WinAATP is the “hottest” primer with a 1-1/8 oz load, but only ranks 5th when the load is reduced to 7/8 oz.


Like so much else in shotgunning, it’s hard to be precise about some things. It’s particularly hard to isolate changes to the shell and barrel. So often one change depends on another.

1. Small rifle primers – which are about .175 inches in diameter and .120 inches tall.
2. Small pistol primers – which are about the same size as small rifle primers but designed specifically for handguns.
3. Large rifle primers – which measure about .128 inches in height and .212 inches in width.
4. Large pistol primers – which are an average of .120 inches tall and.212 inches wide.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/cartridge-primer-technology-developments/

 

[Twicepop]

Inside those battery cup shotgun primers is a Berdan primer, the battery cup has the anvil in it.