using brass as a headspace agauge

[brian923]

how does one use a brass case for a headspace gauge? will this work just as good as a real headspace gauge, or not quite?

brian

 

[kaferhaus]

It works, and some of the most highly regarded smiths in the country use them,Darryle Holland is one of them).

You're not shooting "gauges", you're shooting cartridges...

Now the many that swear this is wrong base their opinion on differing brass dimensions...

Well the headspace gauge doesn't correct for poorly manufactured brass either, so that arguement doesn't hold water.

The other arguement is if the customer fails to properly resize his brass then has a "problem" you have some liability as you didn't use an industry standard gauge. That arguement doesn't hold water either.... if the customer is reloading and the rifle Kabooms.... the onus is on him.

I've chambered hundreds of barrels, many of them "hot rods" and have most always used a new full length resized case,properly resized by the way)as a go guage.

With doubtless 10s or more likely 100s of thousands of rounds down those barrels there's never been the first issue.

 

[robbor]

I was thinking that headspacing off of a sized piece of brass from your dies would take all the guess work out of sizing and wondering how much you need to bump the shoulder or your brass not matching your chamber. The only thing would be like with a savage you would probably need to make sure your brass is always trimmed to min.

 

[NorCalMikie]

robber: Trimming you brass won't change anything. If you gauge the "actual length" of your chambers you might be surprised.
If your brass gets "too long" you can/will run into problems.
Case in point. Two Savage 6BR barrels.One Shilen,One Pac Nor.
Pac Nor chamber length,actual) 1.580. Max trim length on the 6BR brass is 1.560.
Shilen chamber length,actual) 1.579.
Also have a Shilen on my XP rifle in .221 Fireball. Max trim length for the case is 1.400. Actual chamber length is 1.427.
Don't trim till you need to and only when you "want"to.
Some folks like their brass all the same length when they reload.

 

[robbor]

Im slowly getting equipped to test but most of my barrels are factory. I made up some alum plugs on the lathe to determine
the OAL of the brass but I have not done any reloading since I made them. I just bought 2 savages last year and Im going to be doing a barrel swap here soon and will be checking my headspace with previous fireformed in a factor setup barrel and then will check to see what the diff is roughly when spaced to a resized piece of brass in my dies. In readjusting the headspace my only thoughts are with my new Lothar walther barrel that it does have a tighter chamber so once spaced I will be able to determine how much head space I took out and then what max brass length is. Im sure I have lots of room in my factory guns.

 

[kaferhaus]

To say most factory chambers are generous would be an under statement.

I've never had "brass length" be a problem... I uniform all my case necks to the same length before I ever start reoloading them and don't trim until it becomes necessary.

There are many ways to "check" headspace without a purpose made guage. It's just more time consuming.

While I do have an assortment of no-go gauges for quickly checking customer rifles, I own very few go-gauges... mostly rimfire.

Headspacing Savage rifles is so easy you can nearly do it in your sleep.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Setting head space on a Savage is a "feel thing". Maybe after you do about 100 of them you might get the "correct" feel and get 2 that are exactily the same. And they will all be within limits!
I have 2 and one is just a little tighter than the other. Both were set with gauges after they were set with brass. On one I can put a slight bump on the shoulder and the bolt closes real easy. The other is tight on the very last 1/3 drop of the bolt.
In the case of the tighter one, the shell holder is up against the base of the die so I can't bump it anymore. I might have to reset the head space by about 1/8 turn but before I do I've shortened a shell holder to get "just a little more bump". I'll try that before I make any changes to the head space.

 

[Rustystud]

There is no replacement for steel go and no-go gauges. Yes, one can headspace off a properly sized case. But no licensed and insured gunsmith will headspace off anything but steel gauges. The only gumsmith/gun manufacturing insurance company in the US requires chambers be gauged to SAAMI spec. There are several questions in their application form specifically on this topic. If a licensed and insured gunsmith chambers out of SAAMI spec their insurance coverage is null and void. If you read the policy fine print you will find this out. However most gunsmiths are not insured with professional liabliity insurance and chamber as they see fit.
Rustystud

 

[butchlambert]

Listen to Nat.
Butch

 

[kaferhaus]

Rusty, many of the newer cartridges,wildcats) don't even have a SAAMI spec.

In any event, any competent machinist could make a "gauge" in a matter of minutes. Even for the latest "wildcat"..

 

[brian923]

so... can i pull the bullet out of a new 7 rem mag cartridge, fill it with epoxy, and then use a gauge, or do i need to run it through a set of dies first? do i need to cut the neck off the cartridge? brian