Unexpected Results

[K22]

About six months ago I switched from Shooter's Choice to Bore Tech cleaning products not because I was displeased with Shooter's Choice but because the smell was so offensive to wifey.

I choose to use the two product system, C4 carbon remover, followed by C2 copper remover. The reason for the two system approach was that I wanted to continue to use a bronze brush for carbon removal with the C4. I follow with a nylon brush for C2. Right or wrong I believe that the mechanical action of the bronze brush aids in prevent formation of a carbon ring.

After cleaning several rifles of different manufacturers and different barrels, both match and factory barrels I found that I was obtaining no indication of copper removal with C2 after cleaning with C4. At first I thought I had a defective lot of C2 but I tested it on a brass rod and got a very strong indication of positive action against copper (i.e. deep bluing).

Unless something else is going on, the C4 seems to be removing all fouling. I must say I've never seen such an effective carbon remover, the patches are black during the first three passes with a saturated patch of C4. I've backed off the C2 using the C2 every third cleaning (I clean after every 30 rounds). Still not indication of copper present using the C2.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced this strange occurence?

 

[Willie]

With your cleaning intervals and a good barrel, I would suggest that you have minimal copper present. The C4 will act on the copper to a degree, especially when using a bronze brush. I have noticed some blue after running wet patches and a short wait, so it will attack copper fouling. With a much larger round count, I always follow with Eliminator or the C2 Copper.

 

[Zero333]

I tried the BoreTech and it work OK if left in the bore for a while.

For general quick cleaning job I use Butche's bore shine, and for heavy copper fouling (mainly on factory barrels) I use barnes CR-10.

I agree that a bronze brush prevents the build up of the carbon ring.
I shoot at least 200 rounds before I clean the barrel.

 

[Milo 2.0]

For a change of pace, try running the bronze brush with the C2. A bore scope here would be a plus, know for sure. Just try it, I don't want to say what I've found with C4.

 

[powderbrake]

I suggest a couple of dry patches between the C4 and the C2, to insure the C4 is not forming a "shield" for the C2.

I have been using C4 and C2 with the Deweys Copper Eliminator brushes and jags. Nylon bristles, and all aluminum, so there is NO copper in the cleaning rod system. I have found these products to be the best I have ever used to get a bore clean and copper free.

 

[/VH]

My bronze brushes, that will fit through the bore, aren't big enough to keep a carbon ring scrubbed out of the chamber neck.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I suggest a couple of dry patches between the C4 and the C2, to insure the C4 is not forming a "shield" for the C2.

That's kind of where I was going, even jagging it out and dry, seems you need a bronze brush to cut through the film to get to the copper. IME

 

[wedgy]

I tried a whacky science project by soaking bullets in various solvents overnight then weighing them on the FX120i. The Barnes CR10 was the hands down winner on the Barnes bullets but not on a Berger, leading me to believe each cleaner work better or worse on specific forms of copper.
The borescope tells me when it's clean now a days.

 

[K22]

Thanks for all the input.

Wedgy: I don't have a bore scope.

Powderbrake: I do run 3-4 dry patches after using C4 before I apply C2; I do use Dewey non-brass jags and adapters but the ferrule is copper but seems irrelevant since I'm not getting any copper signs on patches after using C2. With C2 I use a non brass nylon brush per Bore Tech's instructions. I follow their instructions to the letter with the exception of using a bronze brush with C4.

Milo2.0: I don't think using a bronze brush with with C2 is a good idea, it will attach the bristles.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Thanks for all the input.


Milo2.0: I don't think using a bronze brush with with C2 is a good idea, it will attach the bristles.

Not sure what attach means here, I use Montana Extreme copper killer with bronze brush, does fine, found I need the brush to get any copper out, your mileage may vary.

 

[Someoldguy]

Not sure what attach means here, I use Montana Extreme copper killer with bronze brush, does fine, found I need the brush to get nay copper out, your mileage may vary.

I believe he meant 'attack', not 'attach'. Fat-fingered a key, or auto-correct, perhaps?

Either way, suppose the copper remover attacks the brush. Clean it in solvent or throw the doggone thing away. After all, they're what, $1.50/ea or something? Sheeeesh.

And buy a Lyman borescope. Then you'll know if your barrel is clean, coppering, fouling, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

 

[KenOath]

I've found that leaving the C2 in over night every so often really gets the majority of copper out of a match barrel.

Cheers Rushty

 

[dkhunt14]

I tried a whacky science project by soaking bullets in various solvents overnight then weighing them on the FX120i. The Barnes CR10 was the hands down winner on the Barnes bullets but not on a Berger, leading me to believe each cleaner work better or worse on specific forms of copper.
The borescope tells me when it's clean now a days.

That just tells me the copper alloy is different. Just might take longer to clean. The Bore Tech stuff really works. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

I use the C4 and Eliminator. The people at Bore Tech told me that C4 also works on copper. It is just more formulated to work better on the carbon. The Eliminator is formulated to work better on copper. I would imagine their copper cleaner works the same way. Matt

 

[Shynloco]

I use the C4 and Eliminator. The people at Bore Tech told me that C4 also works on copper. It is just more formulated to work better on the carbon. The Eliminator is formulated to work better on copper. I would imagine their copper cleaner works the same way. Matt

Hi Matt,
Just curious what you think of Butches Bore Shine Cleaner and JB's Bore Paste? I use the stuff to clean my barrels and generally have found them to work well. But I generally don't shoot more than 40 -50 rds at any one sitting through any of my rifles and clean them afterward. So maybe I'm getting the copper out easier because there aren't a high number of rounds fired in one sitting to cake the copper on harder. Just wondering what you think of the stuff?

Alex

 

[dkhunt14]

Hi Matt,
Just curious what you think of Butches Bore Shine Cleaner and JB's Bore Paste? I use the stuff to clean my barrels and generally have found them to work well. But I generally don't shoot more than 40 -50 rds at any one sitting through any of my rifles and clean them afterward. So maybe I'm getting the copper out easier because there aren't a high number of rounds fired in one sitting to cake the copper on harder. Just wondering what you think of the stuff?

Alex

I have used Butches already and it worked, but I prefer Bore Tech because of no smell. It also works really good. I will use JB if I get a buildup of carbon. I prefer Iosso though to remove carbon buildup. Matt

 

[mongo chicago]

NOTE: Just because the patches come out without any copper signs doesn't mean there isn't any copper fouling in the barrel. Get a borescope. When you think it's clean check it check it with the borescope. I was shocked when I did this with a couple of different cleaners. The best copper cleaners I've tried are KG-12 followed by Montana Extreme.

 

[K22]

Not sure what attach means here, I use Montana Extreme copper killer with bronze brush, does fine, found I need the brush to get any copper out, your mileage may vary.

Sorry, meant 'attack'. I do use a bronze brush but with the C4. Reason: Bore Tech rep told me that if I want to use a bronze brush don't use it with C2. They recommend a nylon brush for both C4 and C2 but as I stated, right or wrong I feel better using a bronze brush for the mechanical action to aid in removing carbon.

I don't want to use any ammonia based solvent because they bother my wife. I figure it's easier to seek an effective no smell solvent than seek a new wife at my age, i.e. 70.

 

[LCazador]

My bronze brushes, that will fit through the bore, aren't big enough to keep a carbon ring scrubbed out of the chamber neck.

Very good VH, the only way to clean that carbon ring is with a brush that's about .020" larger, ie; .224 bore use a .243 and if you don't have a bore scope it's all pie in the sky.

 

[moondog]

CU+2 is what I've been using. It does do a great job on the copper and carbon.
the borescope tells me I have carbon the first 4 inches or so in the rifling.
I have started using a bore mop soaked in boretec overnite. dry patch it
out, problem gone.