Tweek my load or just shoot it?

[TroyMN]

Hello, I have been out of reloading for 10 plus years. Just got a Rem 700 SPS tactical 20" .308. I started working up some loads. I found a load for 168SMK, Varget 44.0 grains, BR2, Winchester Prep brass(pocket primer, length, chamfer, flash hole) did not weigh-sort. 2.810 (+-) .002 ish. way off the lands. .100 off? but others have said it does not shoot better with longer OAL. I tried some longer, no noticable dif, kinda want to keep box length. Only ever shot paper on at a time but, might want to do a coyote, deer or what ever. Gun has been bedded, devcon. Trigger set light as can, I am happy with it. I just want to shoot at 500 plus yards and have fun, good looking groups/ hit the steel.

My previous experience with working up loads was for a A-Bolt 22/250 varminter it would shoot well! I can not get the 700 to do the same yet???
Should I continue to tweek on the load or just shoot the load I have and work on MYSELF, trigger control, cheek weld, ect...
I have a link to some targets maybe you will see a pattern I missed.
http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd200/troyrev800/Shooting/
This is Prob the best target, but please look at my albums and let me know what I should work on.

PS I am CHEAP! You can see a picture of the concentricity gauge I made instead of dropping $100
I want to work with what I have vs " you need a NXS, or BAT action, better barrel ect"

I am working with WW and LC 07 Brass, BR2 primers and SMK 168, Nosler 180 Balistic tips and some pulled bullets 155 Amax, 168 Hor HPBT, Sierra 165 HP,

Thanks for your time,
Troy

 

[LHSmith]

Some targets reference 50 yds, one @ 400 yd, some unlabeled. You recorded conditions the targets were shot in....but did you actually put any wind indicators between you and the target? You may be surprised at what the wind does between the muzzle and target. Best way to shrink groups is wind flags....and lots of shooting over them.

 

[TroyMN]

Most all of my groups are @100yards. The one day I had wind at bench it was on direction, at 50yards it was another direction. 50-100yards is pretty tight tree cover next to no wind 30+ foot trees/ brush with 10 ft wide lane. No flags but use aneometer (spell?)
At 100 yards I did not feel a non perpendicular less than 10mph wind would have much effect.
Thanks for the input. Yea the good 400yard group was less than 3mph and straight at my back. The first 5 shot group was 10 " too low and less than 3" group.
Can survey tape on a stick be good enough? (is there a formula, straight away tape 15mph plus? 45 degrees? Barely away from stick? Wow long tape?)I shoot on low wind days and no competitions where you shoot rain shine, wind or not.
Thanks

 

[jonbearman]

Can you tell us what you are shooting off(rest) and what kind of rifle,barrel,scope mount and alittle more about the scope.

 

[TroyMN]

It is a Stock 700 SPS, the one piece picatinny base, 6-bolt aluminum rings, knock off MK4 3.5-10x40 was on it when purchased. I am happy with the clarity, seem to hold zero well I also use the 6-25X56.
I have had poor scopes that the POI would change, but that was inches, not 1/4 inch or less. POI stays with changing the power. I have other scopes I compare it to and even used on the gun, Vari x iii 2.5-8, Vari x iii 6.5-20, old Tasco (Japan)4-16, New FFP China 6-25x56 and a target fixed 36X Poor clarity. Personally I like 20x range because I can really see gun movements, poor rest, heart beat ect.
Rests tried 3. 1 Full multiple sande bags front and rear. 2 Heavy steel front shooting rest and bags. 3 Bipod front, sand bag rear and hard hold like (Froggy) describes in the .308 article. I like the bipod the best. The gun does not have a flat forend like others and bags just don't do it for me on that gun.

 

[LHSmith]

Survey tape at the same height as bullet travel, placed @ 5, 25, 50, & 75 yds. is a good start. Shoot your group when the tails show the same....i.e. the tails don't necessarily agree with one another direction or velocity...but they must show the SAME wind patterns during all shots for that group. Refrain from shooting during dead calm...., or early AM, or late PM. Consider that many BR matches are held in tree-lined ranges similar to your range ( albeit ~50 yds or wider) and it is not unusual for a 6mm or 30 cal. bullet to move a bullet hole or more with modest tail movement.....look up any reloading manual and you will find that your bullet can be affected by 0.7" @100 w/ 10 mph crosswind. You most likely will find your best groups will be shot with some crosswind component....it's hard to see let-ups in head and tail winds. Also if the target is blurry due to mirage, it's best to hold off shooting groups until you get a bit of confidence reading wind conditions.

 

[fredhorace77]

heres my 2cents...I would bed the stock..lap the rings...try to get your bench techn. down...make for sure the barrel is floated...and get some wind flags. I made some a while back out of 1 inch pvc pipe bout 3ft. tall and put surveyors tape at the top with an 1 inch cap on the pipe to hold it on...works good if your trying to save money..i simply just pushed them into the ground...other than that all i can suggest is trying lapua brass. but like others have said..reading wind will make all the difference in the world.

One other thing to keep in mind which im sure you are....if you plan on shooting 500 plus yards with this equipment dont expect benchrest quaility groups...always keep in mind that the groups should be on par for the gun its self...not trying to talk down on your equipment but so many shooters that are getting into long range shooting are expecting way to much out of factory rigs...personaly the only factory gun that is resonably priced that i would even consider for 500yrd plus shooting is a factory savage...unless you have alot of money to pour into a really high end semi custom factory rifle.

 

[amlevin]

One other thing to keep in mind which im sure you are....if you plan on shooting 500 plus yards with this equipment dont expect benchrest quaility groups...always keep in mind that the groups should be on par for the gun its self...not trying to talk down on your equipment but so many shooters that are getting into long range shooting are expecting way to much out of factory rigs...personaly the only factory gun that is resonably priced that i would even consider for 500yrd plus shooting is a factory savage...unless you have alot of money to pour into a really high end semi custom factory rifle.

Apparently you've never shot a Remington 700 SS 5-R Milspec. Based on my experience and that of many, many, others, it''s the best $1,000 rifle that can be shot well right out of the box. Savage may be good, but that 5-R is tough to beat when shooting factory .308's.

 

[TroyMN]

Thanks for the advise! I am glad I asked. I was looking at it different. Kinda thought I would hear more about, Your press; need Co-ax or a Rockchucker, try diff primers, try more 44.1 and 44.2 grain loads, measure your concentricity and that needs to be within .00X, neck tension and other stuff.
I do have a Collet die coming in the mail I want to try. Also when the price is right I will pick up another press, 2 leaders Rockchucker, (NEW) Lee classis Cast, or maybe some OLD 50lb press? Current is a old aluminum challenger.

If I hear you right, kinda live with my 3/4 MOA groups and work with that and just practice, practice, practice.
I know at 400 Plus ranges the wind even less than 10mph can be 20 inches to FEET! and that would be a SKILL I do not have yet. I know I would have to really think about it, use charts/APP to get on target at 600yards in a 10mph wind. My range is only 200 yards. Next closet 600yards is Private... so I would have to be at a event to shoot? A little too intimidating. Also I think it is postion shooting vs Bench shooting.

 

[amlevin]

If I hear you right, kinda live with my 3/4 MOA groups and work with that and just practice, practice, practice.
I know at 400 Plus ranges the wind even less than 10mph can be 20 inches to FEET! and that would be a SKILL I do not have yet. I know I would have to really think about it, use charts/APP to get on target at 600yards in a 10mph wind. My range is only 200 yards. Next closet 600yards is Private... so I would have to be at a event to shoot? A little too intimidating. Also I think it is postion shooting vs Bench shooting.

I'd love to shoot on a range where the issue is a 10 mph cross wind. The range I shoot at has winds that average about half that but come from just about every direction due to the design of the range. Even get nasty updrafts and downdrafts to go with the "mixmaster" winds. I'd love a good steady cross wind 8) 8)

 

[fredhorace77]

One other thing to keep in mind which im sure you are....if you plan on shooting 500 plus yards with this equipment dont expect benchrest quaility groups...always keep in mind that the groups should be on par for the gun its self...not trying to talk down on your equipment but so many shooters that are getting into long range shooting are expecting way to much out of factory rigs...personaly the only factory gun that is resonably priced that i would even consider for 500yrd plus shooting is a factory savage...unless you have alot of money to pour into a really high end semi custom factory rifle.

Apparently you've never shot a Remington 700 SS 5-R Milspec. Based on my experience and that of many, many, others, it''s the best $1,000 rifle that can be shot well right out of the box. Savage may be good, but that 5-R is tough to beat when shooting factory .308's.

we are not talking about $1000 rifles...i agree the remington 5-R is good but its not a $500 rig either...just like my post stated

 

[amlevin]

One other thing to keep in mind which im sure you are....if you plan on shooting 500 plus yards with this equipment dont expect benchrest quaility groups...always keep in mind that the groups should be on par for the gun its self...not trying to talk down on your equipment but so many shooters that are getting into long range shooting are expecting way to much out of factory rigs...personaly the only factory gun that is resonably priced that i would even consider for 500yrd plus shooting is a factory savage...unless you have alot of money to pour into a really high end semi custom factory rifle.

Apparently you've never shot a Remington 700 SS 5-R Milspec. Based on my experience and that of many, many, others, it''s the best $1,000 rifle that can be shot well right out of the box. Savage may be good, but that 5-R is tough to beat when shooting factory .308's.

we are not talking about $1000 rifles...i agree the remington 5-R is good but its not a $500 rig either...just like my post stated

Based on my last "shopping trip", I guess I overlooked all the $500 rifles. The 5-R was VERY reasonable compared to the prices I saw 8) 8)

 

[fredhorace77]

One other thing to keep in mind which im sure you are....if you plan on shooting 500 plus yards with this equipment dont expect benchrest quaility groups...always keep in mind that the groups should be on par for the gun its self...not trying to talk down on your equipment but so many shooters that are getting into long range shooting are expecting way to much out of factory rigs...personaly the only factory gun that is resonably priced that i would even consider for 500yrd plus shooting is a factory savage...unless you have alot of money to pour into a really high end semi custom factory rifle.

Apparently you've never shot a Remington 700 SS 5-R Milspec. Based on my experience and that of many, many, others, it''s the best $1,000 rifle that can be shot well right out of the box. Savage may be good, but that 5-R is tough to beat when shooting factory .308's.

we are not talking about $1000 rifles...i agree the remington 5-R is good but its not a $500 rig either...just like my post stated

Based on my last "shopping trip", I guess I overlooked all the $500 rifles. The 5-R was VERY reasonable compared to the prices I saw 8) 8)

amlevin..we are discussing a rem 700sps, not a 5-R . sorry i hurt your feelings :'(

 

[amlevin]

One other thing to keep in mind which im sure you are....if you plan on shooting 500 plus yards with this equipment dont expect benchrest quaility groups...always keep in mind that the groups should be on par for the gun its self...not trying to talk down on your equipment but so many shooters that are getting into long range shooting are expecting way to much out of factory rigs...personaly the only factory gun that is resonably priced that i would even consider for 500yrd plus shooting is a factory savage...unless you have alot of money to pour into a really high end semi custom factory rifle.

Apparently you've never shot a Remington 700 SS 5-R Milspec. Based on my experience and that of many, many, others, it''s the best $1,000 rifle that can be shot well right out of the box. Savage may be good, but that 5-R is tough to beat when shooting factory .308's.

we are not talking about $1000 rifles...i agree the remington 5-R is good but its not a $500 rig either...just like my post stated

Based on my last "shopping trip", I guess I overlooked all the $500 rifles. The 5-R was VERY reasonable compared to the prices I saw 8) 8)

amlevin..we are discussing a rem 700sps, not a 5-R . sorry i hurt your feelings :'(

No worries. My feelings weren't hurt at all. People have been trying to do that for over 6 decades and haven't succeded yet 8) 8)