Turned necks & annealing
- Thread starter gotcha
- Start date
Thanks wc872! I'm sure some experimenting is in order. My concern is getting the same amount of anneal on both neck & shoulder. I'm wondering if the flame cone was concentrated at about mid shoulder I could get a, more or less, uniform anneal of both neck & shoulder? More heat on the shoulder & less on the neck? Surely there are those here that anneal cases with thin/turned necks. What, if anything, do you guys do to ensure uniformity of annealing? any EXPERIENCE would be helpful & most appreciated.
Sorry it’s taken me a bit to respond to this but I was out of town for a few days. I am first no expert on this and have not done any detailed study on thin neck brass which I can base my response on, but I think the problem here is annealing is not that precise a science, at least not the way even the most precise reloader does it.
You are basically asking how one would treat a piece of brass differently that is 0.002-0.003 thousands thinner in terms of annealing. I would hazard to guess that no one has an answer that they can pull from firsthand experience based on a scientific study comparing brass with those differences in neck thickness. On the good news side, my understanding is that annealing is actually pretty forgiving i.e. slight differences will not drop you off the cliff in terms of brass softness.
Look for example at how we anneal – even with a BenchSource, we estimate annealing by looking for the slight glow and back off slightly in terms of timing. Then there are guys who anneal using a drill and socket doing a six count…. If annealing is that unforgiving, they would end up with mash potato soft neck more frequently. Don’t get me wrong, it can happen as I have experienced it first hand when I first started but I think if you keep things reasonable, you are not going to be in trouble.
If you are still worried – do the experiment. Take some brass with both regular neck thickness and the thin stuff, anneal the thick stuff until you see the very slight glow (in the dark room), back off a ¼ of a second, put some of that 750 Tempilaq inside the neck and the regular 650 stuff outside and 400 on the bottom half. Anneal the brass and see if only the top half of the 650 on the outside (neck and shoulder) clarify, no effect on the 400 and see what happens to the 750 inside. If you see in the regular thickness neck and with the 750 unaffected but clarified in the thin necks, then you know the thickness is causing over annealing and you have to back off until you get the same results as the thick neck.
You are basically asking how one would treat a piece of brass differently that is 0.002-0.003 thousands thinner in terms of annealing. I would hazard to guess that no one has an answer that they can pull from firsthand experience based on a scientific study comparing brass with those differences in neck thickness. On the good news side, my understanding is that annealing is actually pretty forgiving i.e. slight differences will not drop you off the cliff in terms of brass softness.
Look for example at how we anneal – even with a BenchSource, we estimate annealing by looking for the slight glow and back off slightly in terms of timing. Then there are guys who anneal using a drill and socket doing a six count…. If annealing is that unforgiving, they would end up with mash potato soft neck more frequently. Don’t get me wrong, it can happen as I have experienced it first hand when I first started but I think if you keep things reasonable, you are not going to be in trouble.
If you are still worried – do the experiment. Take some brass with both regular neck thickness and the thin stuff, anneal the thick stuff until you see the very slight glow (in the dark room), back off a ¼ of a second, put some of that 750 Tempilaq inside the neck and the regular 650 stuff outside and 400 on the bottom half. Anneal the brass and see if only the top half of the 650 on the outside (neck and shoulder) clarify, no effect on the 400 and see what happens to the 750 inside. If you see in the regular thickness neck and with the 750 unaffected but clarified in the thin necks, then you know the thickness is causing over annealing and you have to back off until you get the same results as the thick neck.
Thanks Jlow! You obviously went to great extent to answer. Its well appreciated. Your answer offers good food for thought & being a Tempilac user I think your input has merit. This is the 1st time I've gotten involved in turning necks again in about 30 years :
Now that I'm retired I've got the time to do it right. So, why not
Now that I'm retired I've got the time to do it right. So, why not I am glad to be of help as I appreciate anyone who takes the time to seriously think about his reloading. Too many of us take what we do for granted sometimes but it is always those who take that extra step that help all of us make progress.
Retirement is great – I love it too, and finding a passion to pursued is doubly better!
Retirement is great – I love it too, and finding a passion to pursued is doubly better!
gotcha said:
I don't believe so, as long as one uses care in performing the annealing step in a consistent manner.
I've been turning 6HAGAR and 6XC case necks to 0.011" for a couple of years now, the former for 600 yards in a space gun, the latter for 600 - 1,000 yards in a bolt gun. Annealing either, or the 6.5 WSSM brass I just started with this year (0.016" thickness) is done with torch + socket spun at about 100 RPM. Brass for Palma gets turned to 0.012" thickness.
Timing at first with a metronome, I soon gained confidence in just counting off in my head as I watched for the characteristic surface color change that tells me each case is done. Once removed from the torch flame a "blue ring" usually appears just below the shoulder, very much like what can be seen on new Lapua cases.
One forum member here who's also a respected gunsmith & F-Class competitor did a test a couple years back wherein he intentionally 'burned' case necks well beyond what any of us would do, intentionally or otherwise. Those cases still shot good scores & didn't exhibit premature failure as some might have guessed they would.
I shoot tight neck brass, thin as .0009 all the time, and anneal with the socket method about every 3-4 firings. Couple tips: Always clean the neck - shoulder area with 0000 steel wool beforehand. Anneal in dim light. Keep the flame about 3/4" away from the brass centered on the neck-shoulder junction. If you look closely, you will see the mouth turn bright orange right away, then the same color moves down the neck to the shoulder. Stop at that point and dump the case in a tin pan. Once you master this technique, Templiq is not needed.
;D
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.