TUNER SETTINGS PER ATMOSPHERIC CHANGES

[Bill Norris]

I have not owned a tuner/brake very long at all and this may be just an isolated observation within the realm of my 3 rifles wearing them. But, what I have noticed is as fall and winter has approached with lower outside temps and mostly dryer air it seems as if I need to move the tuner setting a little higher according to the numbers which is moving the tuner outward or in a sense making it longer. (Example - on my 243AI the most accurate setting for a particular load was @10 just months back when I first started using the tuner but now that same load with no changes is requiring a setting of 12 in order to maintain the tightest groups) I was wondering if this is a pattern or does it actually change and maybe swap up to require a different approach with other tuners and rifles and other climates ? Hopefully I have explained it adequately. Please weigh in with your findings and advice.

 

[ckaberna]

I can’t help answer, but this is intriguing as I have been thinking of trying tuners. Thanks for your observations.

 

[Bill Norris]

I can’t help answer, but this is intriguing as I have been thinking of trying tuners. Thanks for your observations.

Very welcome. Hoping to get some feedback from other tuner owners.

 

[JEFFPPC]

So, you must maybe first determine if it's the temp or the pressure. I think it's the velocity change which be caused by temperature changes out of a certain range. I will get flamed here but....here goes. I have always tried to develope my loads to shoot in the zeros and ones in ideal conditions. When I have felt after MATCH or maybe a couple of matches things are not right I can usually cure them with a bump or two on my tuner and nine out of ten times this will not occur until 1200 or more rounds. Some barrels, never. When I get to that point the barrel is wasted. Often 2000 to 2500 rounds. I hear guys talking about tweaking for this and for that, but I am outscoring them 9 out of 10 matches. I am convinced unless your tuning at say 75 degrees and then going and shooting at say 40 degrees odds are you were never were tuned properly. We discuss, argue, sometimes cuss on here about this and that but especially at 600 yards and under I feel he who reads the flags best wins. I think it's easy to get lost in the weeds. Loading at home under ideal controlled conditions is pretty tough to improve on out doors with powder in unsealed measures exposed to the conditions. Just my thoughts. I am happiest when I tune a new barrel and can not improve it with the tuner at that point. Those barrels are winners. Might be able down the road to sweeten them up using the tuner,and that is the value of the tuner to me. When I started using tuners I seldom went to a match and saw anyone else with one.

 

[piie]

So, just to add to the observation, I also recently got an EC-Tuner break and while doing the initial setup to find the best setting, inside the same session I already saw something weird: after doing a full 360 on the tuner in “2’s” and going past 10 to 14, the “4” had the best result followed by 10. When dialling back to 4, the group was the worst, but going back to 10, I got comparable results to the first round. Planning to re-do a full test again soon, but I still dont know why the 4 setting was not reproducible (was by far the best of all and the one I would prefer to have…)
So, there may be other factors or variables to take into consideration?

 

[ppaul]

So, just to add to the observation, I also recently got an EC-Tuner break and while doing the initial setup to find the best setting, inside the same session I already saw something weird: after doing a full 360 on the tuner in “2’s” and going past 10 to 14, the “4” had the best result followed by 10. When dialling back to 4, the group was the worst, but going back to 10, I got comparable results to the first round. Planning to re-do a full test again soon, but I still dont know why the 4 setting was not reproducible (was by far the best of all and the one I would prefer to have…)
So, there may be other factors or variables to take into consideration?

backlash?

 

[piie]

backlash?

Too cryptic, please elaborate?

 

[Mulligan]

Down and out is a known pattern. When the temperature goes down, move the tuner out.

I use Ezell tuners and see this all the time. It works, if you want a real quality explanation, talk to Mike Ezell. @gunsandgunsmithing
CW

 

[Bill Norris]

Down and out is a known pattern. When the temperature goes down, move the tuner out.

I use Ezell tuners and see this all the time. It works, if you want a real quality explanation, talk to Mike Ezell. @gunsandgunsmithing
CW

Yes Sir. Thanks. I was hoping he would chime in.

 

[wkdickinson]

I too am a total newbie to tuners. Last fall I installed an Ezell tuner on my 6 Dasher, but only got to shoot it once before the weather closed in. I tuned it as instructed at 100 yds. moving the tuner 1 mark at a time, shooting 3-shot groups. In that 10 mark range I went from out of tune to in tune twice, once at #4 (0.163 moa) and the next was at #8 (0.148 moa). Group size was calculated using "OnTarget" software.

I was working as a Range Officer at our club's annual "sight-in" days before deer season, so the temperature that day was about 40 deg. It will be interesting to see if/how the setting changes when it's in the 70-80 deg. range.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yes Sir. Thanks. I was hoping he would chime in.

I've been awfully busy, but Clay has a pretty good amount of experience with tuners. His advice mirrors mine. I will say this much(yet again), if you're moving my tuner more than a mark at a time...you're already chasing your tail and off to a bad start. There simply has to be a method to your madness here. Moving any tuner by a self determined amount is guesswork and nothing more than a stab in the dark. Even if you luck into a sweet spot like that...Well, what do you do from there unless you establish a value for each adjustment? THAT IS THE KEY TO LEARNING HOW TO TUNE A RIFLE USING A TUNER. There are no exceptions but there are differences between tuner makes and barrel stiffness"

The single most common mistake with tuners is moving them too much at a time!!!! You MUST quantify each mark!!! Otherwise, you're guessing and really have no way of knowing what to do when tune changes.

Happy New Year!!!

 

[Bill Norris]

I've been awfully busy, but Clay has a pretty good amount of experience with tuners. His advice mirrors mine. I will say this much(yet again), if you're moving my tuner more than a mark at a time...you're already chasing your tail and off to a bad start. There simply has to be a method to your madness here. Moving any tuner by a self determined amount is guesswork and nothing more than a stab in the dark. Even if you luck into a sweet spot like that...Well, what do you do from there unless you establish a value for each adjustment? THAT IS THE KEY TO LEARNING HOW TO TUNE A RIFLE USING A TUNER. There are no exceptions but there are differences between tuner makes and barrel stiffness"

The single most common mistake with tuners is moving them too much at a time!!!! You MUST quantify each mark!!! Otherwise, you're guessing and really have no way of knowing what to do when tune changes.

Happy New Year!!!

Yes Sir, I did check @ setting 11 before going to 12 and actually went to 13 & 14 just to see how it would group further up but 12 was a tighter group.

 

[wkdickinson]

I've been awfully busy, but Clay has a pretty good amount of experience with tuners. His advice mirrors mine. I will say this much(yet again), if you're moving my tuner more than a mark at a time...you're already chasing your tail and off to a bad start. There simply has to be a method to your madness here. Moving any tuner by a self determined amount is guesswork and nothing more than a stab in the dark. Even if you luck into a sweet spot like that...Well, what do you do from there unless you establish a value for each adjustment? THAT IS THE KEY TO LEARNING HOW TO TUNE A RIFLE USING A TUNER. There are no exceptions but there are differences between tuner makes and barrel stiffness"

The single most common mistake with tuners is moving them too much at a time!!!! You MUST quantify each mark!!! Otherwise, you're guessing and really have no way of knowing what to do when tune changes.

Happy New Year!!!

Mike,

Does the "one mark at a time" hold true for rimfire tuners as well?

Wayne

 

[JEFFPPC]

I've been awfully busy, but Clay has a pretty good amount of experience with tuners. His advice mirrors mine. I will say this much(yet again), if you're moving my tuner more than a mark at a time...you're already chasing your tail and off to a bad start. There simply has to be a method to your madness here. Moving any tuner by a self determined amount is guesswork and nothing more than a stab in the dark. Even if you luck into a sweet spot like that...Well, what do you do from there unless you establish a value for each adjustment? THAT IS THE KEY TO LEARNING HOW TO TUNE A RIFLE USING A TUNER. There are no exceptions but there are differences between tuner makes and barrel stiffness"

The single most common mistake with tuners is moving them too much at a time!!!! You MUST quantify each mark!!! Otherwise, you're guessing and really have no way of knowing what to do when tune changes.

Happy New Year

I agree with you , except one thing. If your using the tuner to find your initial tune , I think your already chasing your tail. If you shooting 3 shot groups and you het to where your shooting flat .2s or a bit above then start cranking on the tuner your missing the boat. I hear non tuner shooters talking about getting a tuner, finishing an OK LOAD and than starting on the tuner. You can do that but I think your limiting yourself.

 

[coford]

I have been shooting tuners in F-Class for several years. Mulligan has it right. Temperature goes down move the tuner out and when the temperature goes up move it in. I have found with the Cortina and Bramley tuners that it only takes a little to change a lot - like half a mark. I have two large diameter tuners that only have to move a quarter mark to make a difference. I try to dial mine in at the median temperature I'm going to shoot at and adjust in or out according to the temperature difference. The biggest mistake I see people making with tuners is moving them too much at a time. Your point of impact can change with a tuner change so it takes multiple shots to verify if the new tuner adjustment is correct. I see people that are not happy with how they are shooting make an adjustment at a match - shoot one shot - then make another adjustment - and so on - they are just lost.