Tube Range

[joshb]

Yeah. You might get away with it, but someday you might want to sell the property. If you had a permit to build it, it could be a valuable asset. If you don't, you may have to pay to dismantle it or at least bring it up to code. Word got out, about my range, pretty quick. There is a possibility of a knock on your door.

 

[JRS]

Yeah. You might get away with it, but someday you might want to sell the property. If you had a permit to build it, it could be a valuable asset. If you don't, you may have to pay to dismantle it or at least bring it up to code. Word got out, about my range, pretty quick. There is a possibility of a knock on your door.

I live in Robeson Township in PA. Virtually everything I do requires a sketch to be submitted to the Township Engineer, approval and permit. A simple fence on our property required a permit. If I pour a concrete slab, I have to submit documentation showing I will not negatively affect the flow of storm water runoff. That concrete slab is considered a permanent structure, and the square footage is added to my property taxes.

 

[joshb]

Yeah. You might get away with it, but someday you might want to sell the property. If you had a permit to build it, it could be a valuable asset. If you don't, you may have to pay to dismantle it or at least bring it up to code. Word got out, about my range, pretty quick. There is a possibility of a knock on your door.

I live in Robeson Township in PA. Virtually everything I do requires a sketch to be submitted to the Township Engineer, approval and permit. A simple fence on our property required a permit. If I pour a concrete slab, I have to submit documentation showing I will not negatively affect the flow of storm water runoff. That concrete slab is considered a permanent structure, and the square footage is added to my property taxes.

Those Tax assesors do seem to really enjoy their work.

 

[cncmill]

Yeah. You might get away with it, but someday you might want to sell the property. If you had a permit to build it, it could be a valuable asset. If you don't, you may have to pay to dismantle it or at least bring it up to code. Word got out, about my range, pretty quick. There is a possibility of a knock on your door.

I live in Robeson Township in PA. Virtually everything I do requires a sketch to be submitted to the Township Engineer, approval and permit. A simple fence on our property required a permit. If I pour a concrete slab, I have to submit documentation showing I will not negatively affect the flow of storm water runoff. That concrete slab is considered a permanent structure, and the square footage is added to my property taxes.

I am in Robeson Township in PA also. JRS is exactly right. I am going nuts trying to build a simple pole building with all the water runoff stuff coming down from the federal government. I could not imagine what it would be to build a shooting tunnel.

Erick Crouthamel

 

[JRS]

The Gov, nor the lawyer, dictate the laws on your land. Those laws, rules, permits and code are enforced by the county, city, township or parish in which you live. Certainly you don't have to say anything, but, if you are caught, the penalty can be heavy. Personally, I choose to be honest and above board. I don't mind spending a few dollars to do things legally.

 

[people]

When I say gov that is to include all the elected officials from the lowest to highest not just the fed. The lawyer will tell you if there is a rule prohibiting you from doing what you want. If there is no rule then it is ok. After it is done then they can change the law if they want as you will be Grandfathered in.

Example Fargo had no rules about chickens. Never was a problem until they found out one family had a couple as pets. They could not stumble over themselves fast enough to ban chickens. They did ban chickens but had to allow those who had them to keep them. Turns out far more than that one family had chickens. Cost us tax payers so much for a nonissue.

The range is for safety. Not a single round will ever bother anyone but anti-gun people. Who cares about them anyway?

I totally understand where you are coming from JRS and wanting not to break laws.

Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Especially if currently there is no rule against it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Years back, I did some research on tunnel designs and problems. The subject is a lot more complex than meets the eye. There are a number of tunnels that are owned by companies clubs, and individuals. Rushing in, without the proper engineering is likely to result in the creation of a very expensive "monument" that does not work as well as it could have, and cannot be easily fixed. This is particularly true if you plan on using one to test rifles that are shot off of sand bags, that have to be re-aimed for each shot. Mirage is the issue. Any time that you have a surface that is warmer than the air next to it, mirage can and will happen, and it will move the target image, so that you will be shooting at different target locations from shot to shot. Fellows who lack experience with the sort of high magnification scopes that are required for competitive benchrest shooting will not properly understand this issue, so it will be easy for them to overlook it in the design stage. I have a friend who has a state of the art tunnel that has been used to test bullet designs. He is in the construction business, and it was still very expensive to build. It is underground, made of concrete (with a smooth tube interior, and features a large expansion chamber in front of the tunnel, as well as proper control of ventilation so that the target image is stable. It has been a while since I discussed it with him. I think that I will give him a call and ask him what he thinks it would cost to reproduce today. If I manage to get that done, I will post the information on this thread.

Added a little later: We are talking a half million to construct, a thousand a month in energy costs to keep the air conditioned to the proper temperature, and a lot of vacuuming to keep the unburned powder cleaned up. Unless you are using one a lot he said that it would not be worth it. You might look into what Bart Sauter of Bart's bullets has. I believe that he dug a trench, formed and poured the sides, and shoots out of his basement. My friend told me that if he were to shut down his conditioning system that it would take a month to bring the tunnel back to a stable temperature condition needed for critical work.

Boyd, Bart's tunnel is open topped. Yes, he shoots through the tunnel from the basement of his shooting house.(if you can call it that, as it's nicer than many homes, upstairs) He also has an above ground range upstairs at ground level of the same structure. It's really first class all the way. My point...I don't see how "conditioning" of the air in the tunnel is even possible since the top is open. I don't know the exact dimensions, but it's roughly 18" wide by about 4ft deep and 100 yards long. The sides and maybe the bottom are poured concrete, but again, unless it's changed since I was there, the top is wide open. Am I missing something?--Mike

 

[BoydAllen]

The conditioning reference was related to a tunnel. Bart's slot was offered as an alternative. Sorry if I was not clear.