First off, let me give Nathan Dagley genuine kudos for developing a truly innovative product for gunsmithing, as well as a rather revolutionary concept for the modern engine lathe. The True Bore Alignment System (TBAS) is not just another chuck mounting system, it's essentially a back plate with a ball joint to allow for both axial and angular adjustment while holding the work piece in the chuck in a relatively stress free condition without introducing varying torque loads on the work piece that a conventional 4-jaw chuck will introduce.
I'd like to give an unfiltered review of the TBAS and would also like to hear some input from any of the others who have also made the decision to purchase one.
After seeing Nathan's post here on this forum and watching the videos that he had on his site, I was instantly impressed with his invention. I though about it for about a year before finally pulling the trigger on the purchase back in late October of 2013. Since that time, I have been on the learning curve, however, I think I am almost at the end of the curve.
After receiving the TBAS from Nathan, I decided to get a semi steel 6-jaw Gator chuck rather than a much more expensive steel 6-jaw with the idea in mind that I didn't need to spend a lot of money on a chuck since I would not be using any of its adjustability, since all of the adjustability was in the TBAS itself. As it turned out, it was a good call and the right decision. The only thing that I had to do was drill and tap six 1/4-20 holes in addition to the three larger holes meant for the steel Gator, Buck, or Bison chuck mounting configuration. In order to do this, I made a rudimentary aluminum hub for the purposes of keeping the TBAS and chuck in alignment while transferring the holes with a transfer punch. I also refaced the back plate after indicating it's angular alignment as close to zero as possible. Here is a pic of the TBAS and the original hub that I made in order to transfer punch the chuck mounting bolt holes:
Once I got everything together, I was able to spin the chuck without any fear of weight out of balance as a result of chuck misalignment while using the aluminum hub as a permanent fixture inside the system. As I was successful, I did encounter a great deal of chatter cutting any tenon at any rpm with anything more that .010" advance (on the diameter). Needless to say, this was unacceptable. I knew I had to come up with a better game plan, so I took the chuck off and and made a different hub that both threaded into the 2.250-8 tpi threads on the back plate and also fit with a close tolerance fit in the recess of the 6-jaw chuck as seen below.
Both fits had to be pretty close tolerance, since it was meant to keep the chuck on the same centerline while acting as a mechanical interface between the threaded back plate of the TBAS and the chuck. Once the hub was installed, I tightened the 4 adjustment screws of the 6-jaw chuck on the close fitting hub. It worked out very well and while spinning at high rpm (over 900), there is not so much as even a pulse on the machine from any misalignment or out of balance issues.
Once I got this new hub installed, I was very anxious to get things rolling again. I got it together and mounted it on the D1-4 spindle of my machine and still encountered a great deal of chatter. At this point, I was not at all happy and placed a call to Nathan who gave whatever knowledge he had to give. He even offered a refund, which I was not willing to do since I knew this thing just had to work. I was not mad at Nate, but just a bit frustrated at the fact that I plunked down a significant amount of money for something that did not work to my expectation. Meanwhile, I traded several emails with Jay Christopherson, form this forum, as he had encounter similar issues. During this time, the $1800 combination of TBAS and chuck sat on my bench for about a month as the work piled up and before I got motivated to investigate a little more n some free time. Finally, I took the heart of the TBAS apart and noticed a small nick which displaced a very small amount of metal upward, resulting in an interference between the the mating faces of the axial adjustment. I took a small file and removed the nick and put it all back together, and shazam!!! I finally had a system that worked! I let Nate know and he apologized for my inconvenience, but as far as I am concerned, that's just the way it goes in manufacturing. Things happen and there was really no need for any apology, however, it spoke volumes about Nate's character in a very positive way.
Today, I am using the TBAS quite a lot as it produces very good results and I am comfortable with it. Its pros include:
- its unparalleled ability to grab actions for blueprinting by using the angular adjustment feature.
- its ability to hold a short barrels in order to cut muzzle threads for suppressors, where the thread must be parallel to the bore.
- its ease in operation due to the way the axial and angular adjustments are designed.
Unfortunately, like all things, it has it's drawbacks, which include:
- the complete inability to part off a work piece due to excessive chatter
- its very large mass due to the design of the entire system
- its propensity to be on the verge of chatter if cuts and speeds are not just right even with a short piece close to the chuck jaws.
My next experiment with this system is to strategically semi skeletonize the heart of the TBAS in order to eliminate some of its gargantuan mass. Nate suggests that the mass works in it's favor, but Jay and I are of the belief that reducing the mass will help overcome its part time propensity to chatter.
In any regard, I am very happy that I have such an animal and would rate the overall effectiveness and design of the TBAS ann A+ without hesitation.
I hope that others will share their experiences here as well.
Thanks for reading,
JS
I'd like to give an unfiltered review of the TBAS and would also like to hear some input from any of the others who have also made the decision to purchase one.
After seeing Nathan's post here on this forum and watching the videos that he had on his site, I was instantly impressed with his invention. I though about it for about a year before finally pulling the trigger on the purchase back in late October of 2013. Since that time, I have been on the learning curve, however, I think I am almost at the end of the curve.
After receiving the TBAS from Nathan, I decided to get a semi steel 6-jaw Gator chuck rather than a much more expensive steel 6-jaw with the idea in mind that I didn't need to spend a lot of money on a chuck since I would not be using any of its adjustability, since all of the adjustability was in the TBAS itself. As it turned out, it was a good call and the right decision. The only thing that I had to do was drill and tap six 1/4-20 holes in addition to the three larger holes meant for the steel Gator, Buck, or Bison chuck mounting configuration. In order to do this, I made a rudimentary aluminum hub for the purposes of keeping the TBAS and chuck in alignment while transferring the holes with a transfer punch. I also refaced the back plate after indicating it's angular alignment as close to zero as possible. Here is a pic of the TBAS and the original hub that I made in order to transfer punch the chuck mounting bolt holes:
Once I got everything together, I was able to spin the chuck without any fear of weight out of balance as a result of chuck misalignment while using the aluminum hub as a permanent fixture inside the system. As I was successful, I did encounter a great deal of chatter cutting any tenon at any rpm with anything more that .010" advance (on the diameter). Needless to say, this was unacceptable. I knew I had to come up with a better game plan, so I took the chuck off and and made a different hub that both threaded into the 2.250-8 tpi threads on the back plate and also fit with a close tolerance fit in the recess of the 6-jaw chuck as seen below.
Both fits had to be pretty close tolerance, since it was meant to keep the chuck on the same centerline while acting as a mechanical interface between the threaded back plate of the TBAS and the chuck. Once the hub was installed, I tightened the 4 adjustment screws of the 6-jaw chuck on the close fitting hub. It worked out very well and while spinning at high rpm (over 900), there is not so much as even a pulse on the machine from any misalignment or out of balance issues.
Once I got this new hub installed, I was very anxious to get things rolling again. I got it together and mounted it on the D1-4 spindle of my machine and still encountered a great deal of chatter. At this point, I was not at all happy and placed a call to Nathan who gave whatever knowledge he had to give. He even offered a refund, which I was not willing to do since I knew this thing just had to work. I was not mad at Nate, but just a bit frustrated at the fact that I plunked down a significant amount of money for something that did not work to my expectation. Meanwhile, I traded several emails with Jay Christopherson, form this forum, as he had encounter similar issues. During this time, the $1800 combination of TBAS and chuck sat on my bench for about a month as the work piled up and before I got motivated to investigate a little more n some free time. Finally, I took the heart of the TBAS apart and noticed a small nick which displaced a very small amount of metal upward, resulting in an interference between the the mating faces of the axial adjustment. I took a small file and removed the nick and put it all back together, and shazam!!! I finally had a system that worked! I let Nate know and he apologized for my inconvenience, but as far as I am concerned, that's just the way it goes in manufacturing. Things happen and there was really no need for any apology, however, it spoke volumes about Nate's character in a very positive way.
Today, I am using the TBAS quite a lot as it produces very good results and I am comfortable with it. Its pros include:
- its unparalleled ability to grab actions for blueprinting by using the angular adjustment feature.
- its ability to hold a short barrels in order to cut muzzle threads for suppressors, where the thread must be parallel to the bore.
- its ease in operation due to the way the axial and angular adjustments are designed.
Unfortunately, like all things, it has it's drawbacks, which include:
- the complete inability to part off a work piece due to excessive chatter
- its very large mass due to the design of the entire system
- its propensity to be on the verge of chatter if cuts and speeds are not just right even with a short piece close to the chuck jaws.
My next experiment with this system is to strategically semi skeletonize the heart of the TBAS in order to eliminate some of its gargantuan mass. Nate suggests that the mass works in it's favor, but Jay and I are of the belief that reducing the mass will help overcome its part time propensity to chatter.
In any regard, I am very happy that I have such an animal and would rate the overall effectiveness and design of the TBAS ann A+ without hesitation.
I hope that others will share their experiences here as well.
Thanks for reading,
JS
. Been there with chatter on machines shouldn't have it, manual and CNC. They are all bolted to a proper foundation now. Sorry for rambling just throwing out ideas.
