Totally confused!!!!!!

[Surfdude_007]

All, I have gotten back into the reloading game and realized that i am waaay over my head. I have an old RCBS Rock Chucker with everything to reload, But I have seen all the new tools out in the market place. :'(
WHERE DO I BEGIN??????
I currently have a .223 bolt gun Remington action with a Hart 24" Barrel on top of a McMillan A3 stock. I am looking to get up to speed on the new reloading techniques and tools without the age old tried and true method of making the mistakes on my own. If anyone has constructive suggestions on what I should purchase to be competitive(shooting prowess aside), It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bozo699]

Surfdude 007,
I think your rockchucker will be fine @ least for now.I like redding and wilson dies,there expensive though,Kenny474 likes the Lee collet dies and seem to be happy with them.You don't need all the fancy stuff to get started it will all come it takes time and LOTS OF $. You can spoon powder out of a tupperware bowl if need be but you need a good scale.a loading block and some die lube, I like imperial wax, but any will do. If $ is no object call sinclair get your plastic out and tell the guy on the other end of the phone to set you up! and wait for the big brown truck Good luck.

 

[RonAKA]

Some suggestions I would make along with some questions:

- Get some Lapua Match brass, and don't fiddle with the primer pocket or flash hole.
- What is the size of the neck in your chamber? There are some different options for sizing dies depending on what it is
- What is the twist in your barrel? Will determine best potential bullets to try.
- You don't need to go whole hog on the powder measuring, as if you want ultimate accuracy, you still need to weigh every load. An inexpensive measure can speed the process of getting the powder tray close.
- Have you made up a dummy case with one slot cut in the neck and shoulder? Use it to hand fit a bullet, and then feed it into your chamber to get the OAL to the lands. Measure the OAL with that specific bullet and mark it. Load that marked bullet first and set up your OAL by trial and error to give you that same OAL plus any jam or jump you want. For me a 0.010" jam seems to be working well. You can now load the rest of the rounds. They may not have the same measured OAL, but should be real close for jump or jam. A micrometer seating die can make repeating different loads much easier. Hornady, Forster, and Redding make them. They are not essential but make it more convenient to change loads.
- Views vary, but to me it makes sense to only size about two thirds of the neck, and leave the rest unsized. This helps center the cartridge in the chamber, along with the jam.
- A hand priming tool like the Lee or others can make the seating of primers more uniform than using a press.

You have a good press, and perhaps all the other equipment you need. It might make sense to upgrade the dies depending on what you have. I think the most important tool, is knowledge of what you are trying to achieve, and then taking the time to do it right. If you have not already read it, the .223 Info Page is a good place to get started.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

 

[ag1997]

Agreed, the principles are the same and you likely have all the equipment you need. If you are going to buy a electronic scale and are going for pure accuarcy and not volume I would recommend looking at the new Hornady automatic scale. Much cheaper than the RCBS I am using and love. Personally like redding dies for the money. A Trim Mate set up with chamfering, deburring, primer pocket uniformer, and flashole deburrer will speed things up. Neck size only with the bolt guns.

Agree with the Lapua brass.

I have a similar gun as you describe. If we have similar barrel twist, rather slow, I would recommend Sierra Matchking 52 gr with Varget powder for a target load. Start low and work your way up. Found that about 25 gr is just about right. Still working on the best varmint load. Berger bullets appear to be working just getting the charge worked up.

Good Luck!

 

[bozo699]

Surfdude,
I should have taken time to read your post a little closer and I might have given you a better answer like ron did. I have been doing some testing of my own to see for myself if weighing ea. load exactly helps ( definetly does) You will see your es and sd drop way down when your loads are measured exactly.On my rcbs scale say 52.5 gr of h-4831 it will take several powder kernals to make it 52.6 which can be several fps which really can have a effect on es and sd if your shooting short range (under 300yds) not a huge deal (over 300yds) it can start to make a big difference.so I feel a better than average reloading scale is required (like acculab or equivilent)you will see a reading difference with ea.kernal of powder.a sinclair concentricity guage, it can be a great tool to tell you if somthing isn't right ( your loading skills,reloading equipment problems,chamber,ect.
A neck wall thickness guage,sinclair or k&m neck turning tool,a redding mandrel expanding die, a decapping die,hornady or stoney point oal guage,a good set of calipers, bump guages and bullet comparitor tools,flash hole and primer pocket uniforming tools,and hornady and rcbs make a motorized prep stations that makes things a little faster.also I wouldn't be without my wilson case trimer w/excessary's. Lee make cal spacific case trimmers that are inexpensive.a cordless screwdriver,a second press is allways nice like a little hand held Lee so if you need to do somthing quick you don't have to take your seating die out of your rcbs after you took the time to set it up.I could write all day these are just some of my opinions and opinions do vary. The accuracy game is endless.read through some of the sites here on 6br there is quite a bit of info here if you just surf and read,also benchrest central has a great bunch of guy's that are will to help there also.I spent 20+ years just reloading the past couple have been for perfection,its a whole new ball game,you can spend as much as you want( my wife will atest to that) sorry for such a long winded post,I may be back for round two lol. GOOD LUCK TO YOU.
WAYNE.

 

[Kenny474]

I think most of what you may need to upgrade has been covered, but I will still throw out a few thoughts I have.

If you have been out of the game for a while, you NEED a couple new load manuals. Powder changes a bit from lot to lot, and may have changed quite a bit since you last purchased a manual. I feel there is no substitute for a printed manual, and they are far more trustworthy than any info you may find on the internet. It's also much easier to take a book to the range.

If you don't have a bullet comparator, such as the unit made by Hornady, it would be a good investment. As will their OAL gauge. It's much easier to measure the distance to the lands with the OAL tool than a split case. The bullet can stick to the lands and pull out of the split case a bit and ive a false measurement, the OAL tool will not do that.(Sorry, I didn't realize Wayne had covered this)

If you don't have a powder measure, the Lee Perfect Powder Measure will work well and is very inexpensive. If you run a pound of powder through it before using it, it will throw much more accurate charges than if you just use it as received.

I will second the purchase of a second press. A second unit is much easier when you need to do something real quick and have your die set up in your main press, and can also be used to load at the range. Loading at the range will make tuning a rifle much easier.
You don't need a monster of a press for a secondary unit. I have been using a Lee hand press at the range for some time now, and it works well for all but full length sizing large cases.
They also make the Reloader Press, which is a small C-Frame press that can be mounted to a plate and clamped to a bench easily, and it costs about as much as the hand press.

I don't think you will need to go hog wild buying new gear to get going again. As long as you have all the stuff you used to use, you should just need to add a few things and be good to go. Just get what you need to get started and do some reading and see what areas you feel you may need to improve upon. It's really easy to spend a small fortune on all the new tools and gear, and you should really take some time to figure out exactly what you need and what will benefit you most before you start dropping big bank on stuff that may never be of any use for the type of shooting and loading you do.

Just get the basics back and start loading again. Keep reading about what the top guys are doing to make their ammo. See whats on the market and what may benefit you. When you see something you think you can improve on of a tool that may help you make better ammo, than pick it up or ask someone if it will actually help in your case. It's easy to buy something that looks cool or is supposed to help, only to realize that it's not going to help you because of the kind of shooting you do.

Good luck and good to hear you're loading again.

 

[Surfdude_007]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will take heed of all and try to apply them to my reloading. Again thanks for the advice.
--TR

 

[ag1997]

bozo699,

What differences did you see when reducing variation of charge by 0.05 grain (tolerance of 0.1 scale)? I have found that my ability to shoot and conditions during shooting as well as other improvements that are discussed here have a much greater impact on groupings than that rather small difference in charge.

Thanks

 

[Laurie]

Beg, borrow or Steal copies of:

The Competitive AR15 (subtitled 'The Mouse That Roared')

Handloading for Competition (subtitled 'Making the Target Bigger')

Both paperbacks are by Glen D Zediker and published by Zediker Publsihing. Although the first book is about everything to do with building, preparing and shooting the AR15 in XTC competition, it has a lot of good stuff on loading the .223. This is the original Zediker AR15 books - get it not the later versions such as The Competitive AR15 II that are about building custom AR rifles.

Both are available from Zediker Publishing direct, or from Amazon.com (probably cheaper).

Laurie,
York, England

 

[bozo699]

ag1997,
You might be right on that I don't know for sure yet a it has been very windy this summer here to really see what impcat it will have on group size. What I have noticed is my es and sd has greatly improved, which should mean smaller groups @ long range. Truthfully though @ 100yds. I have noticed no diff in group size. Time will tell I guess

Laurie, Has a good point (books) I bought Glen Zediker's precision loading for long range shooting. I think is the title (I will look if not will repost) It is hard to follow some of Glen's dry humor but a vast amout of good advice and knowledge. I refer back to it quite often.
Wayne.