To neck up or to neck down, that is my question.

[DirtDigger]

First post, so be gentle...

I've been looking for 6 creed Alpha brass for what seems like forever and can't find any (out of stock everywhere). I'm currently using Hornady from when I was shooting factory ammo and want to switch to Alpha to lower sd's among other things. I can find 22 creed, 25 creed, and 6.5 creed all over the place. I'm new to reloading and don't have a neck turner, nor do I really want to go down that rabbit hole. So in the effort to avoid the dreaded donut and neck turning, is it better to neck up 22 creed (I have 2 22 creeds and use Alpha brass), or is 25 close enough that I can neck down and not turn? I'd rather use 25 to keep brass sorting more simple. I keep reading that going from 6.5 to 6 will cause the donut and neck wall thickness to grow approx 0.0015 to 0.002, but no info on what will happen to 25 if necked down.

Also, for what it's worth the rifle is a Seekins Havak Hit 6 creed, and I'll be using Short Action Customs modular sizing die with a mandrel. I don't know the neck diameter of the chamber (google didn't show me much) nor what loaded 6 creed ammo would be with necked down 25 or what I would assume is safe necked up 22 creed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Rook 6]

First of all welcome. Second, a very good question indeed. I can tell you that I wasted a lot of time, money and effort necking up 6.5-284 to 284. (Couldn’t find any Lapua .284 at the time.). The donuts I experienced were a nightmare. I am personally convinced that you should choose the neck down option whenever possible. Others may disagree…

Good luck!

 

[L.Sherm]

I agree on the neck down part but I do neck up. Biggest thing is having your reamer set up to stay out of the donut.
Having a inside nk reamer and being able to turn into the shoulder of brass helps the donut situation if you can't avoid it.

 

[RegionRat]

If your favorite bullet and chamber will allow you to load the base of the bearing diameter above the junction, you can ignore the donuts.

 

[big5ifty]

I've experience outside donuts from necked up brass , and I've experience donuts on the inside from correct headstamp .243 Win brass.

Is it a certainty that necked down brass never develops donuts ?

 

[L.Sherm]

Is it a certainty that necked down brass never develops donuts ?

No, properly set up reamer- bullet combo is the answer to any donut problem.

 

[Rook 6]

I agree on the neck down part but I do neck up. Biggest thing is having your reamer set up to stay out of the donut.
Having an inside nk reamer and being able to turn into the shoulder of brass helps the donut situation if you can't avoid it.

Very good point about reamer setup. Part of my issue was that the reamer I used did not have enough freebore. What really surprised me was how quickly and prominently the donut formed with necked up brass. First shot out of new brass. Without a doubt the donuts would have developed regardless. Only a matter of time. New reamer seats above the donut.

 

[spclark]

As you're new here, welcome!

If you're also new to reloading, you should consider adding a case length management tool to your kit. You mention not knowing chamber dimensions so it's inevitable that, sooner or later, you'll find your fired / resized brass perhaps growing so long in the necks that they 'pinch' bullets as your bolt's closed, making for increased pressures upon ignition.

Trimming cases to length to avoid this is done with the case trimmer tool I mentioned. Many will also allow using a case neck reamer so you can deal with donuts if (or when) you find them.

Chances are good that limiting your choice of bullets to those that will avoid being seated so deep as to encounter any donuts that arise may limit your potential for accurate loads to the lighter weight (shorter) bullets offered. Getting a chamber cast of your barrel's chamber is a fine way to learn what its dimensions are. It's pretty simple in theory but does take some practice to get reliable, consistent results.

Necking up pulls shoulder brass into the neck portion, necking down squeezes neck brass into a smaller diameter. Both affect the thickness of the necks you get for your trouble, each will cause issues if not properly managed.

 

[JLittle]

My opinion only. If I were new to reloading I would try to source the correct brass and try to avoid forming brass and neck turning. 6 Creedmoor is manufactured by several companies. All of which should work equally well. Also a different head stamp could help avoid cross contamination of loaded rounds, you mentioned a 22 Creedmoor.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

My opinion only. If I were new to reloading I would try to source the correct brass and try to avoid forming brass and neck turning. 6 Creedmoor is manufactured by several companies. All of which should work equally well. Also a different head stamp could help avoid cross contamination of loaded rounds, you mentioned a 22 Creedmoor.

Yeah KISS. Call or email alpha and ask when the next run will be or maybe get some lapua. I also shoot 6 creed with Hornady brass from factory ammo. Groups great, but ES and SD suck. I also have no desire to ever turn necks. Next barrel I will get alpha or lapua brass.

 

[DirtDigger]

As you're new here, welcome!

If you're also new to reloading, you should consider adding a case length management tool to your kit. You mention not knowing chamber dimensions so it's inevitable that, sooner or later, you'll find your fired / resized brass perhaps growing so long in the necks that they 'pinch' bullets as your bolt's closed, making for increased pressures upon ignition.

Trimming cases to length to avoid this is done with the case trimmer tool I mentioned. Many will also allow using a case neck reamer so you can deal with donuts if (or when) you find them.

Chances are good that limiting your choice of bullets to those that will avoid being seated so deep as to encounter any donuts that arise may limit your potential for accurate loads to the lighter weight (shorter) bullets offered. Getting a chamber cast of your barrel's chamber is a fine way to learn what its dimensions are. It's pretty simple in theory but does take some practice to get reliable, consistent results.

Necking up pulls shoulder brass into the neck portion, necking down squeezes neck brass into a smaller diameter. Both affect the thickness of the necks you get for your trouble, each will cause issues if not properly managed.

I do have a case length trimmer (Hornady 3 in 1), and I've been trimming every time so that isn't an issue. I didn't realize necking up also creates a donut from shoulder brass being drawn into the neck, which makes sense. It kind of looks like I'll be shooting Hornady brass till I find some Alpha. I understand why Lapua isn't making 6 creed at the moment, but does anyone know why Alpha 6 creed brass is out of stock everywhere, but they have everything else? I do hear Peterson is good brass, but also keep hearing how it pressures out quick and is thicker than everyone else.

 

[DirtDigger]

Yeah KISS. Call or email alpha and ask when the next run will be or maybe get some lapua. I also shoot 6 creed with Hornady brass from factory ammo. Groups great, but ES and SD suck. I also have no desire to ever turn necks. Next barrel I will get alpha or lapua brass.

I'm going to do that tomorrow. I would just go Lapua as I have some in 223 and 6.5 prc, but it's also nonexistent at the moment. They do have the war in Ukraine as the reason right on their website though.

 

[ebb]

Always neck up. When you stretch the neck you don't get thicker necks that that lead to a neck that is tight in the chamber and causes an over pressure, and don't need to neck turn. I learned this the hard way.