Time for a balance beam I think

[Jay Christopherson]

I have a Scott Parker tuned beam scale - and it's fully capable of single kernel accuracy. It's even reasonably fast, especially compared to a non-tuned beam scale. But taken into the entire loading equation (dropping powder, weighing, trickling), it's still a fair bit slower than a good digital scale (FX-120i, GD-503). For me, saving 15 - 20 seconds per case is worth a lot, which is why I spent the money for it. There are even options to measure/trickle/dump even faster, saving even more time without sacrificing precision. But, again it costs more (a lot more in some cases) and you have to decide if your budget allows for it and if so, if the value is there for you.

For me, I look at my time as an investment. Some people enjoy the idle time spent loading ammo - and so do I, to a degree. But I place a lot of value on doing other things with my time as well. If the value of what I could be doing with that time outweighs the cost of investing in high dollar tools and I have the means to do it... then it's usually a pretty easy decision for me.

In the end, whatever floats your boat is what you should do. I won't lord it over beam scales and tell people they are a waste of time, just because I have a GD-503 - I know they are fully capable of the same level of precision. I might take some selfies of me and my setup at the range though, so they have something to look at while they are still loading...

 

[BoydAllen]

Some time back, I figured out a way to dump powder into a balance scale's pan, while it was on the scale, without any powder bouncing out. Others have done the same thing. There is even a slick unit that I have seen that may go into production. Using this, with a web cam on the balance pointer/reference marks I have been able to complete a complete cycle of charging a case in about 16 seconds or so, throwing light, and trickling up. This is sort of a poor man's Prometheus. How long does it take you to get from empty pan on scale, through powder in case, and back to empty pan on scale?

 

[sparky123321]

I pour directly from the Gen 6 pan right into another pan already zeroed on the analytical balance. The Gen 6 is many times done with the next light charge before I'm done trickling.

 

[BoydAllen]

From the start of pouring into the funnel, to the start of pouring in the funnel, how long?

 

[ChristCross]

Xhuntress,
I have used an electronic scale for something over 15 years and would never go back to a balance beam. The speed and convenience of a GOOD digital has to be experienced to be believed. Even more so when weighing bullets and brass.

Having said that before I bought my first digital I tried a few of those marketed by the reloading companies belonging to friends. I was not impressed.

My first buy was a Denver Instruments which measured to 0.1 grains since this was what DI tech said was more than adequate : A number of years later I moved up to a DI TR-603D which I used up until a few weeks ago when I purchased a Sartorius Entris64-iS . http://balance.balances.com/scales/569 A quality scale as Jay said is worth the money in my opinion.

+ 1 on the upgrade, I too move to the Sartorius Entris64-iS. It save time and was not tired at staring at a beam scale. Still plan on sending my USA made 10-10 scale to get tuned up for a back up. never Know when the powder goes down

 

[dixieppc]

I have a Scott Parker tuned beam scale - and it's fully capable of single kernel accuracy. It's even reasonably fast, especially compared to a non-tuned beam scale. But taken into the entire loading equation (dropping powder, weighing, trickling), it's still a fair bit slower than a good digital scale (FX-120i, GD-503). For me, saving 15 - 20 seconds per case is worth a lot, which is why I spent the money for it. There are even options to measure/trickle/dump even faster, saving even more time without sacrificing precision. But, again it costs more (a lot more in some cases) and you have to decide if your budget allows for it and if so, if the value is there for you.

For me, I look at my time as an investment. Some people enjoy the idle time spent loading ammo - and so do I, to a degree. But I place a lot of value on doing other things with my time as well. If the value of what I could be doing with that time outweighs the cost of investing in high dollar tools and I have the means to do it... then it's usually a pretty easy decision for me.

In the end, whatever floats your boat is what you should do. I won't lord it over beam scales and tell people they are a waste of time, just because I have a GD-503 - I know they are fully capable of the same level of precision. I might take some selfies of me and my setup at the range though, so they have something to look at while they are still loading...

You are right concerning the hidden wonders of a properly tuned set of beam scales. When I threw my hands up on dealing with digital scales that were in my price range of around $250, I went and pulled my 40 year old set of Ohaus 10-10's out of moth balls. They did fine since they had never been abused but a friend talked me into sending them off for a Parker tuneup. When they got back I could not believe the difference. It was like the difference in night and day. And no matter what anyone says, I can throw a light charge, trickle up to my powder load and get the powder in the case just as fast with these tuned beam scales as I could with the digital scales. I will admit that I use the aid of a camera on the beam pointer throwing the image up on a laptop screen to make it easier for me to see when the charge is right. I also use an Omega electric trickler but then I used that same trickler on the digital scales so no advantage there.

My use of the word "affordable", when talking about digital when talking about digital scales, was questioned in an earlier post and I can see how that word can mean just about anything to everyone. Affordable has a direct relationship to you're worth I guess or your income. Some people can easily afford a $1000 set of digital scales that are just as accurate and repeatable as my tuned Ohaus 10-10's. I, on the other hand, am now at the age of living on a fixed income and anything over $250 for a set of digital scales is a hell of an expense.

But I still don't understand with the state of science today why they can't offer a quality set of accurate repeatable digital scales in the $250 to $300 range. This is not new technology, this is not rocket science, this has been around awhile in the jewelry and precious stone industry. A good friend that works in a research lab associated with a local university agrees with me on this. He says that the cost of the science and the R&D of developing such scales has long since been paid for and that these units should not cost what they do compared to other devices that I have gone through the same metamorphosis. Remember what you paid for an HDTV widescreen TV when they first came out years back compared to what you're paying for a superior quality HDTV widescreen TV today?

Sorry about my soap box rant. Hope I didn't offend anyone. That was not my intent. I would like to see all of us get the best bang for our buck without getting milked.

Best Regards......

 

[Patch700]

Dixie I agree with your last statement regarding what something costs VS what it costs to make , I'll say this I would rather pay 500 for an a@d then 20 bucks for a new off the shelf beam scale .

The box they come in has more quality and craftsmanship.

 

[BoydAllen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUwgNwmlt64

 

[chkunz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUwgNwmlt64

Neat! I could use something like this. Anyone else tried one?

 

[BoydAllen]

I have not tried it. I wish that it was being produced. As far as I know it is not available. I put the link up to stimulate thought and conversation. There are probably several ways to accomplish the same thing.

 

[37Lincoln1]

Simple and effective = genius.

Well done.

 

[noload]

That typical powder pour aluminum fixture doesn't look like mine. Do you think things might get a little crowed when you and a tickler to the mix ? I do admit its a nice invention.

 

[Syncrowave]

I gave up on digital scales except for rough sorting of brass and bullets.

Same here. The RCBS 10 • 10 works just fine for powder charges.

 

[1066]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUwgNwmlt64

looks like this could do the same job Boyd - maybe play around with some homemade baffles to slow the powder down and feed it directly into a beam scale pan.

http://shop.rcbs.com/Products/Powder-Measures-and-Scales/Powder-Measures/Tricklers/Powder-Trickler-System-Combo.aspx

Combine it with this system here, replacing the original trickler with the Omega auto trickler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmFdmrz7njg

Doesn't matter if it's a 20 grain load or a 60 load the times just the same. Personally I seat the bullet while the tricklers doing it's thing. There's always a weighed charge ready before I am.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Some time back, I figured out a way to dump powder into a balance scale's pan, while it was on the scale, without any powder bouncing out. Others have done the same thing. There is even a slick unit that I have seen that may go into production. Using this, with a web cam on the balance pointer/reference marks I have been able to complete a complete cycle of charging a case in about 16 seconds or so, throwing light, and trickling up. This is sort of a poor man's Prometheus. How long does it take you to get from empty pan on scale, through powder in case, and back to empty pan on scale?

It varies, depending on how accurate the thrower is being. Some powders throw better than others. When things are going well and I'm cruising along, I can dump/weigh/<trickle if necessary>/charge in maybe 15 - 30 seconds. Sometimes I get a string of good dumps and I can charge in 10 seconds or less. Sometimes the thrower dumps heavy and I have to pull a few kernels. I'd say on average, I turn around a charge in 20 - 25 seconds or so. With a tuned beam scale, I average closer to 30 - 35 seconds or so. Sounds like you have a good system going. I'll be honest in that I never looked very much into the various tricks that can be done with the beam scale - I basically went straight from a tuned beam scale (as received) to the GD503 with no in-between, once I saw the video of the GD503 responding to trickling grains of salt.

 

[carlsbad]

I use a sartorius lab scale and have great success. The problem with the Gem Pro and the less expensive electronic scales is that they are strain gauge. They give one measurement per cycle meaning you have to tap them to get them to measure again (like the bathroom scale). This can be a challenge trickling. The sarttorius uses a magnetic coil that will register trickles.

I use either an RCBS chargemaster or a very old RCBS manual powder throw to drop each load about .1 or .2 grains light. Then I use an electric trickler on the lab scale to get my measurement to the .1 grain +/- .01 grain. This is about as close as you can go with most powders without splitting kernels which weigh about .020 grains each. Ball powders are easier but I'm using extruded powders for all my rifles right now.

--Jerry