Tikka CTR question

[CKshooter]

So, a buddy and I have T3 CTR's. One in 6.5 creedmoor, the other 260rem. We are avid shooters and try to get out at least once a week. Issue we are having shooting 3 shot groups is both rifles shoot 2 shots in virtually the same hole and one will be high right between an inch and an inch and a half. Today for example we had eight separate groups do this. We are both shooting reloads. Half neck sizing, using mostly H4350. Seating between .005 and .010 off lands. Just wondering if this is normal? Are we just shooting as well as our rifles will allow? Is this a form issue? This was all done at 200yds. That's our zero range. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Thauglor]

I'm a little confused by your wording . Talking about just your rilfe, first shot hits aiming dot on paper. 2nd shot is then high and right? This is with the same loaded ammo (not changed powder charge or bullet weight)?

Your friends is doing the same thing?

 

[CKshooter]

I'm a little confused by your wording . Talking about just your rilfe, first shot hits aiming dot on paper. 2nd shot is then high and right? This is with the same loaded ammo (not changed powder charge or bullet weight)?

Your friends is doing the same thing?

Correct, shooting 3 shot group's. Same powder charge and bullet weight.

 

[CKshooter]

Correct, shooting 3 shot group's. Same powder charge and bullet weight.

Correct, shooting 3 shot group's. Same powder charge and bullet weight.

To be more clear the 260 loads and 6.5 creedmoor loads are not identical powder charges.

 

[Thauglor]

So first shot at the dot, 2nd high and right. Where does shot 3 land?

8 groups you say did this. How many groups in total did you shoot?

I have 2 Tikkas in 6.5x55, with the bullet jammed, it only has 2 mm of bullet in the neck (not counting the boat tail). Do the 6.5 and 260 Tikkas also have a very long freebore?

At 200 yards, a bullet moving 1.5" outside the group is still a 3/4 MOA load. Maybe use the 3 shot groups to get a general area for the powder charge then switch to 5 shot groups to test the loads?

 

[Pvt.Donut]

My guess is you're just pulling the last shot. Try 5 Shot groups and see what happens. My CTR shoots great and I've never had an issue that wasn't shooter induced. How are you shooting groups? Bipod? Benchrest? Eliminate as many shooter variables as you can and try again to verify if it's the gun or shooters.

 

[CKshooter]

So first shot at the dot, 2nd high and right. Where does shot 3 land?

8 groups you say did this. How many groups in total did you shoot?

I have 2 Tikkas in 6.5x55, with the bullet jammed, it only has 2 mm of bullet in the neck (not counting the boat tail). Do the 6.5 and 260 Tikkas also have a very long freebore?

At 200 yards, a bullet moving 1.5" outside the group is still a 3/4 MOA load. Maybe use the 3 shot groups to get a general area for the powder charge then switch to 5 shot groups to test the loads?

We shot 8 three shot groups. The groups are in no particular order when it happens. Could be first 2 touching and third one high and right, or could be second one that does it. It's random. The creedmoor has very long freebore but the 260 does not. I have the 260 and am able to seat bullets well into neck.

 

[Zero333]

3/4moa at 200 yards seems reasonable from a factory rifle.

Play a little with the seating depth, and use 5-shot groups to judge the accuracy of any given load combination.

You can eventually try different powder and/or different bullets to see if you can find a more accurate load.

 

[CKshooter]

3/4moa at 200 yards seems reasonable from a factory rifle.

Play a little with the seating depth, and use 5-shot groups to judge the accuracy of any given load combination.

You can eventually try different powder and/or different bullets to see if you can find a more accurate load.

Thanks zero 333, you're correct we should be with factory rifles, and we are. Even at 400 and 500yds were shooting sub moa. Just want to figure out if its form or rifle that's the issue. To be honest for factory rifles these Tikka rifles shoot really well. We went and shot again today and same results. We have played a ton with seating depth and many different powders and charges. Just picked up a pound of rl16 and it seamed to shrink the groups just a touch.

 

[CharlieNC]

If you only shoot 2-shot groups, the groups will be better. More shots = larger groups. Try a few 10 shot groups to learn your true capability to establish a better baseline. Without shooting a lot of 3-shot groups, its difficult to really determine if any are truly different from the others with such a small sample size.

 

[K22]

I never do load development at 200 yards because shooter error is magnified all the more.

I always shoot 5 shot groups in load development. I allow the barrel to cool at least 5 minutes between shots. I don't do too much testing in one range session so as to reduce fatigue and lack of focus. I take my time with each shot trying to adhere to all the fundamentals of good shooting techniques. Obviously I wait for days where the wind in not a factor when doing load development.

Once I get something that looks good I will test 2 more time with 5 shoot groups normally shot on different days.

 

[CKshooter]

Thanks K22, we have shot at 100yds and at that range the flyers are minimal. At 200 its usually an inch, with the occasional 1.5in. At 400 its 2.5 to 3inches. It gets bigger as we go up in yardage most of the time. I understand the heated barrel with hot cartridges, but didn't consider it much of a factor with rounds under 3000fps. We do wait for days with very little wind to develop loads.

 

[22BRGUY]

A couple suggestions:
1) Are you shooting from a front rest with a forend stop? If so, after you fire the first shot, can you push the rifle forward from the butt and when the forend stop stops the forward travel of the rifle, can you look through the scope and have it exactly on the center of the target? If not, why not?
2) Those Tikkas are usually butt heavy. Not sure but making the forend stop longer and somewhat farther out so the rifle is a bit more front heavy might help. I know it made a real nice difference on one of my rifles. You can experiment with it.
3) Consistent trigger pull is critical. Make sure your finger placement is always exactly the same on the trigger
and that you are pulling exactly STRAIGHT BACK.

Good luck

 

[CKshooter]

A couple suggestions:
1) Are you shooting from a front rest with a forend stop? If so, after you fire the first shot, can you push the rifle forward from the butt and when the forend stop stops the forward travel of the rifle, can you look through the scope and have it exactly on the center of the target? If not, why not?
2) Those Tikkas are usually butt heavy. Not sure but making the forend stop longer and somewhat farther out so the rifle is a bit more front heavy might help. I know it made a real nice difference on one of my rifles. You can experiment with it.
3) Consistent trigger pull is critical. Make sure your finger placement is always exactly the same on the trigger
and that you are pulling exactly STRAIGHT BACK.

Good luck

mostly prone from a bipod but same results from a bench and rest.

 

[22BRGUY]

In that case I would suggest watching this guy and this vid and also some of his others listed. IMHO he is tops and has helped me no matter my shooting positon. Hope it helps

 

[Mark M.]

So, a buddy and I have T3 CTR's. One in 6.5 creedmoor, the other 260rem. We are avid shooters and try to get out at least once a week. Issue we are having shooting 3 shot groups is both rifles shoot 2 shots in virtually the same hole and one will be high right between an inch and an inch and a half. Today for example we had eight separate groups do this. We are both shooting reloads. Half neck sizing, using mostly H4350. Seating between .005 and .010 off lands. Just wondering if this is normal? Are we just shooting as well as our rifles will allow? Is this a form issue? This was all done at 200yds. That's our zero range. Thanks in advance for any help.

Sounds like a bedding Issue

 

[dc.fireman]

So, a buddy and I have T3 CTR's. One in 6.5 creedmoor, the other 260rem. We are avid shooters and try to get out at least once a week. Issue we are having shooting 3 shot groups is both rifles shoot 2 shots in virtually the same hole and one will be high right between an inch and an inch and a half. Today for example we had eight separate groups do this. We are both shooting reloads. Half neck sizing, using mostly H4350. Seating between .005 and .010 off lands. Just wondering if this is normal? Are we just shooting as well as our rifles will allow? Is this a form issue? This was all done at 200yds. That's our zero range. Thanks in advance for any help.

A couple of things:

Is your CTR a T3? or a T3X? If they are both T3's, remove the rifle from the stock, and take a look at the recoil lug underneath - if they are fairly banged up and hammered, flip it over, and try the same 3 shot groups. My T3 did this from time to time, and its a problem they solved on the T3X.

Are you shooting over a chronograph? Or an E-target? It helps to give you information regarding the load, like deviation in velocity between shots.

The CTR has (I believe) a synthetic stock - is there sufficient clearance under the barrel ?

Initially, it sounds to me like you might not yet have the correct loads developed for each rifle - but there could be minor mechanical issues at play...

 

[Knotwild]

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor CTR and it is the 20" version. It has been very accurate. When I first got it I was shooting at 100 yds for barrel break in. Below is a target shot with 129 gr Hornady American Whitetail off a rest and bags. Cheap to buy and it shoots far above what I pay for it in my gun. I can get a little better groups with it using Prime 130 gr, which I think is built out of Norma components (or was at that time). Since then I have worked my way out to 500 with it and I have some 4.5 to 5" groups with it there. But I haven't had anyone to teach me about shooting over distance and I am a poor wind reader. I think the CTR's come with the steel recoil lug. I haven't touched the stock, but if reloading components ever become more available, I might be tempted to put it in a KRG Bravo chassis.

Please let us know what fixes your problem.

No, that's not a picked target - it's pretty consistent.