Thumbs and Revolvers - which way is best

[MikeMyers]

I've learned how to grip a revolver with one hand, and once I get used to the weight, I've gotten to where the gun barely moves when I dry-fire, and my targets look good, up until when my hand starts to feel tired.

With two hands gripping the revolver, the weight of the revolver is no longer an issue. Right hand works the gun, left hand helps support the gun. My question is, for the most precise shooting, which thumb goes where.

It seems logical to me that I would grip the revolver with my right hand, then wrap my left hand around my right hand, with the left thumb being on top of the right thumb. The advice I've found so far mostly says to place the right thumb on top of the left thumb.

Also, one of the better combat shooters at my club says it's important to grip the gun as high as possible. That matches the advice for semi-autos, but my S&W grips are quite small near the top, so doing this gives me little control. On the other hand, if I grip the gun lower down, my grip is much more secure, and the gun is controlled better.

Wondering if any of you have good advice about this.

 

[TAJ45]

Imo, the left hand is not "helping hold the right hand up". Being a proponent of what Clint Smith taught me in his two classes before going w Col Cooper full time, I use the push/pull method. This would be strong hand thumb being closest to the pistol to answer your original question.
Afa revolver, I would do some heavy Googling on Jerry Miculek, YouTube etc and see if my eyes could pick up some tips - if they were fast enough. Does Jerry have tutorials available?

 

[MikeMyers]

I didn't mean the left hand helps hold up the right hand - the reason it is called the "support" hand is that it deals with supporting the gun, leaving the right hand to ONLY control the trigger.

I'm not thinking of "speed", only "precision". I've watched lots of Jerry's videos, and heard his advice, but he is concerned with "time", which for me is irrelevant if the only thing on my mind is precision. What I mostly do is Bullseye Shooting, which means using just one hand. The left hand goes in your left pocket, or behind your belt.

I've watched, and followed the advice of the Navy Seal who has a full video on how to really FOCUS on the front sight:

To me, that's what my eyes need to do.
My right hand needs to fire the gun without disturbing the sight picture and alignment.
My left hand, if I use it, relieves my right hand from also having to support the gun.

Hickok45 makes this look so effortless, with his right hand, or his left hand, or both....

 

[TAJ45]

Now I capiche where you are coming from Mike being an old BE shooter myself.
If you are competing in the BE game, do any Dr's in your area do the double, double joint implant for the Rapid stage?

Sight pic is first then it has to go away for the total attention alignment gig, paying attention to the heart rate bottoming out after exhale for 3-4 seconds.
My head likes to play nasty games by getting me to focus twixt the front sight and the target. :/

 

[DirtySteve]

Watch the video of Jerry Michlek shooting a revolver 1K yards.. Hold it that way..

 

[mousegunner]

My first formal lessons on revolvers were at the BP academy. We were taught the Weaver stance since it was in line with the field interrogation stance. It was always faster and easier to put your left thumb over your right thumb when drawing from your holster and taking up a 2 handed grip. A high hold was taught but not pushed since we were learning to draw rapidly against a threat and a good solid grip in a bad situation is what you wanted.

My lead instructor was an old BE shooter. He once shot at a BE target, with the revolver upside down looking through the viewfinder of a 1980s video camera (big and boxy) and was scoring 10 ring shots at 25 yards! He was stressing a good sight picture and trigger control not so much the grip (maybe showing off and it worked!) A great shot, excellent instructor and human being.

Anywho nowadays since going to semi autos in 1996 I find myself pointing my thumbs forward with a revolver. It's that muscle memory and even though I can shoot that way I remind myself to cross my thumbs but it feels different. I need to shoot revolver more. Isosceles is a little hard for me with a bad right shoulder so the Weaver and its push/pull way suit me. My 2 cents.

 

[K22]

Having now shot revolvers now for over 50 years and having qualified as a Distinguish Expert in Bulls Eye with revolvers shooting one handed and qualifying as AAA in Small Bore Hunter's Pistol Silhoulette (using two handed hold) and hunting extensively with a revolver in the 70's and 80's I can offer the following;

1. Gripping the frame high with your shooting hand is good advice on double action revolvers such as the S&W's. This helps minimize vertical stringing and helps keep the shooting hand from riding up the grip frame during recoil. In fact the S&W's have a slight depression in the back of the frame expressly for this purpose.

2. I know some good shooters like to place the support hand thumb over the shooting hand thumb but I do not like this grip arrangement because it's uncomfortable for me and doesn't feel natural. It creates too much unnatural and awkward stress on the grip. I prefer to place the shooting hand thumb along side the frame pointing at the target over top the support hand thumb pointing in the direction of the target. This produces a smooth natural lateral support of the revolver during firing. It also enables me to quickly cock the revolver in single action mode without having to change my grip.

3. It's important to have a set of stocks that fit your hand properly. This largely depends on the size of your hand. I have rather large hands so stocks that expose the back strap of the frame don't work well for me because I cannot obtain effective trigger finger placement.

In the old days you could send a tracing of your hand to Steve Herrett and he'd carve a set of stocks to match your hand precisely. Seriously revolvers shooters I shot with all did this - none of them use the beautiful but less effective S&W factory wood target stocks. The ultimate stocks were the custom made Herrett target stocks with a recoil horn and palm support which 'locked' the hand in place during recoil.

The old rubber Packmeyer presentation stocks were a good substitute for custom stocks especially for shooters with large hands. They provided a non slip surface and covered the back strap.

Whatever method you choose it should feel natural and comfortable. The revolver has to feel like a natural extension of your hand. There is a lot of other issues to shoot precisely consistently but I just tried to address your specific questions related to grip.


PS: I cannot offer anything on shooting double action as I never shot my revolvers in this manner.

 

[MikeMyers]

K22, I think you've completely answered my questions. Based on your qualifications, that's a pretty good justification to follow (or at least try) your suggestions.

1 - I don't understand. With standard S&W Stocks, the higher I grip the gun, the less "wood" is there to grip. On the other hand, my left hand is "low", and the combination seems stable. I will try that tomorrow. When I combine this with your next point, it all comes together...... When I shoot one handed, I struggle with the smaller size of the stocks up near the top. It seems to me though, that no matter how good I get at one-hand shooting, two-hands should get as good, or better, results.

2 - I was surprised that what you describe feels so natural. Shooting hand thumb on top, pointing forwards, and support hand thumb below it, also pointing forwards. As you noted it makes it easy to cock the hammer for the next shot. (I'm only shooting single-action, as the gun still wobbles all over the place when I cock the hammer for double-action shooting.) With one thumb over the other, regardless of which thumb, your idea is obviously better for me.

3 - I think the standard grips fit me well. I've got a pair of Nill Grips which I thought fit my hands even better. For tomorrow, I'll leave the stock grips on the gun. That's another test to try.

Other questions - are those custom Herrett Target stocks still available? All they need is a tracing of my hand? I have a set of what might be those Pachmayr stocks on my Model 29, but the "stock" wood stocks seem to fit my hand better.

Finally, you wrote "There is a lot of other issues to shoot precisely consistently but I just tried to address your specific questions related to grip." Please do elaborate. If your other information is as helpful as what you've already written, I would very much like to learn from it. I do have several books on this topic, but I can relate to what you write better than all of them put together. Thank you!!

 

[Outrider27]

Note that S&W grips tend to be smaller at the top and larger at the bottom, which allows the gun to shift in your grip under recoil (as opposed to in dry firing, which you are quite rightly using for development purposes). All of the alternative grips mentioned above from the aftermarket have the smaller portion of the grip (even if only a little bit) at the bottom and the larger portion of the grip at the top, to help prevent the gun from shifting (which will place your grip even higher on the gun, undesirably higher) under recoil. I do not have one S&W revolver in 38spl or more powerful cartridges that does not also have either Pachmeyer or other aftermarket or custom grips, in order to prevent the revolver from shifting (rolling up, basically) in my hand during recoil. I use the grip described by K22 and with the aftermarket grips it works great with 357 and 44 mags. Stock S&W grips, no such luck.

 

[K22]

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

1. For most shooters, two handed shooting is the way to go. It's obviously more stable with a support hand. There are only two reasons I can think of to shoot one handed, a. It's required by NRA Precision (bulls eye) Competition; b. Defense training often requires shooting with the weak hand in case the strong hand is disabled.

I had trouble shooting well with the standard S&W stocks because of the exposed back strap and my large hands. The slight depression in the metal grip frame is designed to fit the web of your shooting hand to stabilize the revolver during recoil. However I could never get a comfortable trigger position so I changed to Herrett and Packmeyer Presentation stocks that covered the back strip and set my hand back from the back strap a bit. There is not one stock that is best for everyone - it's a personal fit issue. The lower position on the grip frame does tend to align the trigger finger better with the trigger with some stocks but at the cost of potential riding up during recoil. the correct stock fit cures this problem.

2. The main reason I do not like the wrap around thumb position is that it places the support hand in an awkward position at least for me. It also leave a gap between the support hand and the stock which can cause lateral movement.

3. As I said above, stocks are a personal preference and fit issue. If a specific stock fits you well then it's the right stock for you. I'm not sure if Herrett Stock are still offered. I think Steve passed away a long time ago. You can do a search on the net.

4. The best advice I can give you is to get a copy of the Army's marksmanship Unit "Pistol Marksmanship Manual." This is the best resource I ever saw for learning the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship. It will explain: stance / natural point of aim, the all important concept of front sight focus, trigger control, follow through, and calling shots. I learned to shoot in the Army and shot on the post pistol team and had some of the best instruction available. I also help train doctors being sent to Vietnam on how to shoot the M16 rifle and 1911 45 ACP pistol. Believe me, the AMU knows their business.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

 

[GuitarmanNick]

Note that S&W grips tend to be smaller at the top and larger at the bottom, which allows the gun to shift in your grip under recoil (as opposed to in dry firing, which you are quite rightly using for development purposes). All of the alternative grips mentioned above from the aftermarket have the smaller portion of the grip (even if only a little bit) at the bottom and the larger portion of the grip at the top, to help prevent the gun from shifting (which will place your grip even higher on the gun, undesirably higher) under recoil. I do not have one S&W revolver in 38spl or more powerful cartridges that does not also have either Pachmeyer or other aftermarket or custom grips, in order to prevent the revolver from shifting (rolling up, basically) in my hand during recoil. I use the grip described by K22 and with the aftermarket grips it works great with 357 and 44 mags. Stock S&W grips, no such luck.

Very good points! My 10-7, 2" snubby would sometimes rotate in my hand until I replaced the grips with a Pachmayr rubber grip. Now it is a pleasure to shoot and even when firing double action, the grouping is nice and tight. It is my oldest handgun, too heavy and bulky to carry any more, but still my favorite to shoot. Hard to beat the trigger on an old S&W.

 

[PhilKeil]

Watch the video of Jerry Michlek shooting a revolver 1K yards.. Hold it that way..

yes watch the master

 

[FNSafari]

I think gripping a firearm, revolver or semi auto, by one hand is fine if you are a bullseye shooter. But, look at the defensive tactics training being done these days on how to grip a pistol. They vary but they are mostly two handed. Getting that other hand and arm on the firearm helps steady it and also puts more in front of your vital chest area.

 

[JEFFPPC]

First off there is one way to know. Test yourself. I put some time and effort into how I could best hold and accurately shoot a revolver out to 100 yds back when I shot the Buckmaster competitions. For me as a right hander right thumb on top and using the right thumb to cock the hammer was best. If you haven't been shot in one arm or the other using only one arm to fire a handgun when it counts is stupid. No other way to put it. Is there a reason to so some practice with one hand. Yep, I found put when I shot weak hand I am much more accurate using my weak eye also. Moral of the story.....just like tuning a rifle. Real knowledge comes from testing, not reading and watching videos. Don't like my answer, go back to playing your video game.