This Rifle won't Shoot! Diagnosing the issue(s).
- Thread starter TheCZKid
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 17 mach iv 17m4
dhagerty40
Gold $$ Contributor
wonder how many people have not figured out that the rifle is at the gunsmith right now?
hopefully, he will find something easy to fix it!
You maybe should take it to a gunsmith.
Kidding. While waiting,
how do I open pages like on post 196?
I've tried right, left, and upside-down clicks.
Kidding. While waiting,
how do I open pages like on post 196?
I've tried right, left, and upside-down clicks.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
He did not post a link, it's just a photo showing the DIY modified case. You'd have to search it on your own for the actual process.
Thank you.
dhagerty40
Gold $$ Contributor
this is the link:
Make Your Own Chamber Length Gauge from a Fired Case « Daily Bulletin
Here is a clever DIY tool we learned about from Frank Shuster, a Forum member, who, sadly, passed away in 2015. Frank was a very knowledgeable shooter who was always willing to help others. Here is one of Frank's smart inventions. He devised a way to measure the length of a rifle's chamber using...
ArtinNC
Gold $$ Contributor
I like the Sinclair chamber-length gauges
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Interesting. Posts 195 through 197 seem to be missing.
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
They are there when I look. (?)
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
As posted earlier by @1911nut, the absolute best way to determine your chamber length is with the Sinclair chamber length plugs. The one thing you need to know is the chamber neck diameter if it's a non-standard chamber. If that dimension isn't known, you can use a fired case neck as a guide. If the diameter of the 'collar' on the end of the plug is too large, it's easy to chuck it in a drill and use a small file to reduce the diameter of the collar. That way, the plugs work on standard and tight neck chambers.
You just trim a case neck about .100-ish, put the plug in and close the bolt. Measure the OAL of the case to the end of the plug. 5 minutes total and you know the chamber length. No guessing.
If you have the reamer, you can run that into a piece of barrel stub or aluminum for a case length gauge where you can see the neck area. Unless a reamer is specified so, virtually all reamers will have a 45 degree angle from the end of the neck to the throat...you can see this area in the pictures below. That's the area can can give you trouble with a too-long case. The neck can get pinched into this area and you can't feel it closing the bolt. The bullet doesn't release cleanly, pressures can jump around, it will spit shots on target, etc, etc.
This is all just basic trouble shooting 101. If you don't know...verify it.
For a case to work with the Hornady tool, all that's needed is an 'L' (.190) drill and a 5/16-36 tap. I stick the case in a Wilson case holder and put it in the little 7X14 mini lathe, drill the hole and tap it. Probably 10 minutes including clean up.
As to a bore scope, if you remove the sleeve holding the angled mirror on the standard Hawkeye bore scope, they measure right at .165.
If you put a white cotton patch ahead of it, you can see inside a .172 pretty well. 
2 cents worth over my second cuppa' Sulawesi.....
You just trim a case neck about .100-ish, put the plug in and close the bolt. Measure the OAL of the case to the end of the plug. 5 minutes total and you know the chamber length. No guessing.
If you have the reamer, you can run that into a piece of barrel stub or aluminum for a case length gauge where you can see the neck area. Unless a reamer is specified so, virtually all reamers will have a 45 degree angle from the end of the neck to the throat...you can see this area in the pictures below. That's the area can can give you trouble with a too-long case. The neck can get pinched into this area and you can't feel it closing the bolt. The bullet doesn't release cleanly, pressures can jump around, it will spit shots on target, etc, etc.
This is all just basic trouble shooting 101. If you don't know...verify it.
For a case to work with the Hornady tool, all that's needed is an 'L' (.190) drill and a 5/16-36 tap. I stick the case in a Wilson case holder and put it in the little 7X14 mini lathe, drill the hole and tap it. Probably 10 minutes including clean up.
As to a bore scope, if you remove the sleeve holding the angled mirror on the standard Hawkeye bore scope, they measure right at .165.
If you put a white cotton patch ahead of it, you can see inside a .172 pretty well. 2 cents worth over my second cuppa' Sulawesi.....
Last edited:
Have you muted anyone?
TheCZKid
Silver $$ Contributor
Okay, got it back from the gunsmith last Wednesday. Here's the feedback I got from him:
The bedding on the action was done well. He measured if the front foregrip of the stock moved in relation to the barrel, when he tightened the action screws. He said it only moved .002, two thousandths of an inch, based on that he said the bedding is not the issue.
The head-spacing was accurate with go - no go gauges. The crown looks good, the inside of the barrel looks shiny with no pitting or visible issues. He didn't have a 17 caliber borescope, so he just had to look from both ends, and said it looked fine. He verified the twist rate checked at 1:10 twist.
The only thing he found was the front screw on the scope base was too long. It was hitting the threads on the barrel, so he took about 1 to 1.5 threads off for clearance, and LocTited it back, remounted the rings and scope, and it was ready to shoot.
I took it out soon after, and with my best load so far, 19.6 gr of 8208 and 20 gr Varmageddon HP bullets, Rem 7 1/2 primers, shot the following target. That was on a clean barrel, and it had a POI shift from the first bullseye.
It's better than it was. I asked the gunsmith, if it doesn't shoot well after his work, what would you try next. He said change the scope. So I did, again.
This next target I shot yesterday, I used the same 19.6 load on first 2 targets, and 19.7 grains on 3rd.
I think the rifle would be fine for shooting varmints like PD's and coyotes, rock chucks and so on. I was hoping it would be better, as I like smaller groups for sage rats. However, I'm done with trying more loads. I'll likely list it for sale soon, as some others here expressed interest.
It's a great little package, the gunsmith work was done well. From what I know of it's history, the Lilja barrel should have less than 500 rounds through it. I'm not sure why it won't shoot tighter groups, but I'm don't have the money to change out the barrel to see if that's the issue.
It would be an excellent set-up for a 20 Vartarg or 221 FB, with this XP-100 action.
The bedding on the action was done well. He measured if the front foregrip of the stock moved in relation to the barrel, when he tightened the action screws. He said it only moved .002, two thousandths of an inch, based on that he said the bedding is not the issue.
The head-spacing was accurate with go - no go gauges. The crown looks good, the inside of the barrel looks shiny with no pitting or visible issues. He didn't have a 17 caliber borescope, so he just had to look from both ends, and said it looked fine. He verified the twist rate checked at 1:10 twist.
The only thing he found was the front screw on the scope base was too long. It was hitting the threads on the barrel, so he took about 1 to 1.5 threads off for clearance, and LocTited it back, remounted the rings and scope, and it was ready to shoot.
I took it out soon after, and with my best load so far, 19.6 gr of 8208 and 20 gr Varmageddon HP bullets, Rem 7 1/2 primers, shot the following target. That was on a clean barrel, and it had a POI shift from the first bullseye.
It's better than it was. I asked the gunsmith, if it doesn't shoot well after his work, what would you try next. He said change the scope. So I did, again.
This next target I shot yesterday, I used the same 19.6 load on first 2 targets, and 19.7 grains on 3rd.
I think the rifle would be fine for shooting varmints like PD's and coyotes, rock chucks and so on. I was hoping it would be better, as I like smaller groups for sage rats. However, I'm done with trying more loads. I'll likely list it for sale soon, as some others here expressed interest.
It's a great little package, the gunsmith work was done well. From what I know of it's history, the Lilja barrel should have less than 500 rounds through it. I'm not sure why it won't shoot tighter groups, but I'm don't have the money to change out the barrel to see if that's the issue.
It would be an excellent set-up for a 20 Vartarg or 221 FB, with this XP-100 action.
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
When you've exhausted everything else, you're left with the barrel
Probably gonna get some 'hate' here, but shoot 10 rounds, put it up dirty, and try it again in 2-3 days. I've had more than 1 barrel that just had to be fouled to shoot well.
Normally, I cringe at leaving a barrel dirty. But it appears that you can't hurt this one too much.
*If* it shoots well fouled, I'd still not leave it fouled long-term. It'll just get worse. If it doesn't, nothing lost but a bit of time and a few rounds. And if you don't want to go through the 'preconditioning', I'd send it along to another owner.
Probably gonna get some 'hate' here, but shoot 10 rounds, put it up dirty, and try it again in 2-3 days. I've had more than 1 barrel that just had to be fouled to shoot well.
Normally, I cringe at leaving a barrel dirty. But it appears that you can't hurt this one too much.
*If* it shoots well fouled, I'd still not leave it fouled long-term. It'll just get worse. If it doesn't, nothing lost but a bit of time and a few rounds. And if you don't want to go through the 'preconditioning', I'd send it along to another owner.
Last edited:
TheCZKid
Silver $$ Contributor
I actually did do that as well, shot it without cleaning it, it's a question I had, and a good idea to try. I shot it with about 18 rounds through it, from the last time I tested it. I wanted to see if it shot well after it had been sufficiently fouled. I think the point of impact changes with this rifle after it's fouled, for some reason. But it didn't have smaller groups per se.
chuckshooter
Silver $$ Contributor
at some point, you just have to recognize, "it's just a barrel" buy a new one in the caliber of your choosing and have it changed, the reason I don't own any 17's is I can't use my borescope and I'm addicted to using my borescope. I think the xp action is great start on any rifle. solid bottom. 1/2" shorter than a 700. I run 4 xr actions, (2) .20tac, 204r, 223. I wish I had more. good luck
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.