thinking about biulding a rifle for tactical matches

[lal357]

not sure if this is the right place for this so if it isnt please move it .....
i'm thinking about getting into tactical rifle matches IE shooting in different positions,rapid fire timed ,at different distances .for this type of shooting my f class guns wont cut it all are single shot with atleast 26" barrel and weigh 16-18lbs. so i have a donor rifle already and know it will be a 308 but what barrel length and contour is most favorable for this type of shooting i will more than likely add a brake to it also scope power i'm thinking just for giggles range will be 1000 yards max mostly 700 and under right now i use 8x32 or 10x50 power scopes is a fixed better i know it will be moa hash marked and 2nd focal plane (my preference)

 

[XTR]

You'd [probably get a lot more experienced shooters over on SnipersHide.com; however, in general that type of competition has, like most competitions, evolved the equipment.

The 260 class bullets are the darlings, 260Rem and the 6.5x47 Lapua seem to be the favorites. There are others in including some short magnums out there.

Barrels tend to be in the 26" range + comp, MV is the goal to extend margin of error for hits in UKD shooting.

Some matches are grouping 308s into a separate class, they just have a hard time running.

Some thoughts:


Barrel length


Caliber

 

[coreydelong]

You say you jave a donor rifle in .308, but ask what barrel length you need?? Are you just using the action off the donor then?

There's not much tactical shooting (match wise) at 1000yds. Our club has Field Tactical matches every few months They don't go much past 700yds. I personally don't go because these matches tends to attract a lot of idiots who wish they were Marine Snipers. Idiot's running around with guns, going up and down ladders, trees, bunkers, etc does not appeal to me at this point in life.

I would say a 20"- 24" barrel would get you what you needed out to 700yds accuracy wise. If it's going to be a .308 for sure I'd go with 155g Scenars, or 185g Berger's at max length that will fit in your mag and feed reliably. 1:10- 1:12 will work for both. I've taken both these bullets to 1000yds without issue in a stock 1:12 twist, 26" R700 bedded in a B&C Medalist stock. The Bergers may require a 40MOA base depending on your scope.... my NF NXS 12-42x56 only has 22MOA elevation adjustment each way and a 20MOA base would not make it at 1000yds.

The donor rifle barrel will likely be just fine as is. You could also get a Criterion Barrel and just thread it on (I'd go Varmint contour).... http://criterionbarrels.com/ProductPages/Prefits.html

The B&C stock was $410 at Stocky's- http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-108/bell-carlson-adjustable-tactical/Detail. Looks like they have gone up a bit and are currently out of stock, but call them.

The NF NXS 5.5x22x50 will work- at max power the MOA are exact. I'd get a NP-R1 or NP-R2 reticle. These scopes are built for running around and taking a little abuse.

or, if you don't want to screw around- sell your action and get a GAP...

http://www.gaprecision.net/

 

[offgrid]

Been shooting steel matches for the last two years on mostly "square" ranges. Next season plan on shooting in these matches http://www.precisionrifleseries.com/ as well as the Sniperhide Cup.

A few of the guys I shoot with have shot in the PRS type matches, fellow Colorado member Hoser is one of them. I see what they are using for rifles, calibers, optics, slings, shooting sticks, range finder........

Been using a Nightforce 5-22 2nd focal plane scope. In the process of selling it to purchase 1st focal plane scope. I would highly suggest a 1st focal plane. A couple times during a match in Raton, NM I would have to dial down to find targets or to make sure I was shooting at the right target, then make the mistake of not dialing back and missing because of a miss wind hold.

308 for a caliber choice? I believe you would be handicapping yourself with a 308 with most others shooting 6mm's, 6.5mm's and some 7MM's. Currently shooting a 6mm Competive Match (very happy with this caliber) with a 28" heavy palma contour. Going to chamber another rifle in 6CM with a 27" medium palma contour with a brake for the PRS matches. Shooting a 6MM with a brake is going to be much easier to stay on target in awkward positions to see hits/misses.

Once again very happy with the 6CM, just worked up a load with 105 Hybrids/H1000 at 3160, laser beam. I've read knocks against using 6MM's for LR steel matches, can't move/see steel target hits at distance. I'm having no problem swinging a 12x16 plate at 1020yds.

 

[coreydelong]

I also agree that .308 is not the caliber of choice. I'm just working within the OP's current components.

I would go just as you offgrid.... 6.5mm or 7mm.

I shoot a 6.5x284 in F-Class. It surely is a tack driver. I'm not sure which way I'll go when I burn my first two barrels out. I WAS thinking of going to 7mm. I'm seeing that the 7mm is not that much less of a barrel burner than the 6.5x284. Guys are getting 1700 rounds out of a .284 and many are getting 1200 out of a 6.5x284. 500 rounds really isn't going to sway me away from the 6.5x284 considering how much brass I have. Add in the cost of dies and another reamer and I'll keep my barrel burner for some time to come.

 

[brian427cobra]

Shooting movers is so much easier with a FFP scope, also MRAD scopes rule this type of shooting, I find MOA reticles too fine for rapid corrections, MRADs are super easy to use/learn as long as you don't try to convert Mils to inches, a mil is a mil, take a hard look at a Vortex Razor scope, they are a FFP 5-20x50 available with EBR2/3 reticles(MRAD) or EBR1 reticle(MOA), no matter which you choose the knobs will match the reticle, DO NOT buy a scope with a MRAD reticle and MOA knobs. As for caliber everybody has a 308, and its the perfect round to learn this type of shooting with, and a 22-24 inch barrel is perfect IMHO in 308, you absolutely need a stock that will accept bottom metal that uses AICS mags, or has a Magwell that accepts AICS mags, of course an AICS stock will work, but there a dated design with crappy feel and useless thumb hole, I have a Rock Solid stock on my 260 comp gun, there a new design by a tactical shooter, each stock is made from a solid piece of T6, not a casting, it's comfortable, and is everything you need and nothing you don't in a stock for this type of shooting, price 750ish. You mentioned Muzzle Brake, I recommend you have one, but not a Vias style of any sort, you will be laying in the grass dirt mudd sand and a brake that vents down will kick up stuff, choose a brake that vents to the sides only, I have a Tubb T2k brake on each of my rifles, not only is it a awesome recoil reducer, but its adjustable so you can tune it for accuracy, and lock it in place with a jam nut. The only bipods to use is a Harris 6-9 swivel notched leg with Pod-Lock, or an Atlas, and get a flat square rear bag like a TAB, reason is you can use it as a rear bag or under the bipod legs when folded up in goofy positions, the only sling I recommend is a TAB quick adjust. Finally Snipershide is getting over run with retards, but is still the best resource on the web for this type of shooting, take a look at Tactical Matches for the hardcore info

 

[brian427cobra]

I also recommend that you not use a exotic caliber, you will loose a lot of brass, leaving 6.5x47 in the grass will get expensive, I pretty much only use Winchester brass in my 260(7-08 or 243)and 308.

 

[lal357]

the donor is a savage it would be my 6th biuld i was thinkikng 308 since i use one in f t/r now and dies and brass are easy to come by (have a police swat guy for a nieghbor and can get more if needed (i use lapua for my f class gun). it almost looks like my 6.5 creedmoor would work if i put it in a stock with removable mag. as for scope i agree with matching turrets my f class scopes are sightron 10x50's with moa/moa . having a gun without a detachable mag seems to be the worst handicap i have that and the weight .

thanks for the input

 

[brian427cobra]

6.5 Creed is a very competitive round, and is especially popular with people who don't reload, down side is single source of brass/ammo, Hornady couldn't keep up with demand a little while ago but invested funds to keep up with demand, I may have my next barrel chambered in it.

 

[lal357]

i know about the brass problem one thing that has plagued me is primer pockets getting loose after 3-4 firings and these are not max loads i load for accuracy not fps. i started forming my brass with 22-250 brass and will start trying 243 and 308 next after i get a neck turner.
its a good round and shoots flatter than my 308 does along with bucking the wind better@ 700-1000 yrds.

 

[brian427cobra]

243 slinging 108 Hybirds or 115 DTACs will do just about everything better than 308 except barrel life, 260Rem is great round somewhere in between the two, I chose 260 because of that, my barrel has 3750 rounds down it, sub 1/2 MOA groups are still the norm but now it takes 3 grains more H4350 to achieve the same 2800 fps, my next barrel will be Melonited, and probably a 6mm 7.5 twist.

 

[XTR]

One thing mentioned here that I think is important. Brass, every guy I've talked to that does tactical comps says that you lose most of your brass, you just don't have the time to stop and police it up. The point is don't decide on a caliber because Lapua makes brass, and don't go to your first comp with a hundred rounds all loaded in new Lapua brass, you'll be leaving a chunk of change on the field.

Personally I'd make a caliber that I can anneal and neck down from the worn out 308 out of my F-TR rifle, most have at least one more firing left in the primer pocket when I retire them Just run and gun and leave it behind (I think I've got a couple of thousand cases at this point)

 

[CZ550]

Wouldnt a .308 running the 155.5's really hot be a good choice ? Would you really be giving up all that much to other calibers ?

 

[brian427cobra]

I used to push 155 Scenars at 3050, Lapua brass was toast after 4-5 loads, Win lasted slightly longer but not much, a smart guy told me if I wanted 260 preformance shoot a 260, now I use brass made from Win 7-08 or 243(neck turned to prevent donuts) and it lasts 15-20 loads with annealing.

 

[CZ550]

I used to push 155 Scenars at 3050, Lapua brass was toast after 4-5 loads, Win lasted slightly longer but not much, a smart guy told me if I wanted 260 preformance shoot a 260, now I use brass made from Win 7-08 or 243(neck turned to prevent donuts) and it lasts 15-20 loads with annealing.

I agree but with you brian but if you lose most of the brass at the match brass life would not be a big concern.

 

[lal357]

thats why i'm thinking 308 or something oof of a 308 case since 308 brass is plentiful between what i can get for free from my nieghbor or already have .i too shoot the 155's come out of my 30" barrel @ 2925 chrono'd they hold good out to 1k thats the only draw back i see about biulding another 6.5 CM brass either have to buy hornady or make my own which is not bad just that i will have to neck turn all my 308 converted then worry about loosing it .
i did concider a 223 for a short time since i wont be shooting out to 1k all the time and they are cheap but wind is a bitch my son uses my 223 f class rifle to shoot with me and even with 80 gr pills you really have to know the wind to shoot out past 400yds

 

[Dgd6mm]

6MM Competition Match

 

[FroggyOne2]

Shooting those light bullets like the 155's in the 308 or the 80's in the 223 will really teach him about wind reading..

 

[XTR]

I think shooting the light 308s out of a shorter barrel you may have a reality check on how much MV you can actually achieve. Those 2900 to 3000 FPS numbers you hear from F class guys are with 30" barrels and pouring in more powder than most shooters would consider reasonable and seating WAY out past what you can fit into a magazine. Go and read some of Darrell Buells posts here and over there regarding his 155 F class loads. Don't believe most of velocity numbers you read on Snipers Hide, I figured out pretty quick that I either had the slowest barrels ever made or there was some BS numbers on the internet (Hmmmm ....) I think most of those numbers are derived from guys running their come ups from 100 in JBM to calculate a MV but don't take into acct DA.

 

[Drop Port]

You fist have to decide what you want out of shooting these matches. Do you want to shoot for fun and get out in all kinds of conditions to challenge yourself, do you want to be compedative, or do you want to win.
Some things I learned from the last Comp. You need AI mags for the timed shooting. A brake for me is a must, I need to be able to see hits and more important misses. And a large enough Cal. to see misses hepls but is not everything.

I would like to shoot matches that only allow 308's but the last match put a cap at 300win or 7 RM with a max of 3100fps

A 300 win with a 215 Hybrid or 7mm with a 180 is hard to beat. with that being said you can be competative with a good 6mm or 6.5.

Shooting a 308 will be tough but fun all depends on the Comp. I got to shoot ASC and would go back with any cartridge just to be able to shoot the field conditions for hunting practice. Short, looong, high angle, wind and rain. Great fun and I'm sure some matches draw all types fortunately this one was just serious shooters out having a good time.