The Quest for more accuracy

[joed49]

I am a varmint hunter and have been loading for 34 years now. The two cartridges I use for varmint hunting are .22-250 and .25-06.

After browsing here I've wondered if I can obtain any more accuracy from my hand loads.

I've been thinking about neck turning and wondered what that will buy me for accuracy? Would it be a benefit?

Also started thinking about maybe a better seating die than just standard RCBS dies. Will this buy me anything?

For my rifle loading I use an RCBS Rock Chucker. Would I be able to use the precision seating dies in this press or do I need something else?

This is all new ground for me but I'm interested in learning more. Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[hoss6br]

in my hunt for accuracy over the past, ive learned that getting an action trued and a custum barrel and a good stock to be the 1st step, i have baught alot of gidgets and gadgets over the years to get my stock remington 700 to shoot well, but after taking it to harts and having the action trued and a new barrel put on its ben a whole different game, now i can spend more time shooting real small groups instead of wondering what new thing i can buy to make the factory gun shoot better. in short if i had to do it all over again i woulda took the money i spent on stuff to make the factory gun shoot better and baught a custum rig that does shoot better. ;D

 

[GerryM]

Yes Precision reloading can help . I won't work well with a bad barrel and bedding set up though.
Heres A Few things that can Help a good rifle shoot better.
Neck turning Centers up the cartridge up in the chamber'
Inline seater Keeps the ammo straight
Neck sizing bushing die lets you control neck trension and help align the case in the chamber .
I have had many Remington and Winchester rifles ove the years and A good bedding job does a lot to improve accuracy.

 

[joed49]

I probably should have added that the .25-06 is a Remington 700 VS that has been rebarreled by Krieger.

The .22-250 is a brand new Remington VS Stainless and is stock except for having a B&C Medalist stock and Timney trigger.

Both have been bedded. The 06 is the most accurate and will shoot under 1/2" when I do my part. The 250 is to new at this point as it only has 60 rounds thru it.

 

[rayporter]

do you use quality flags?

 

[2506]

The most beneficial easy thing I have ever found to increase accuracy is to de-burr the inside of the case flash hole. Get you a Lyman tool, it is the less expensive, and de-burr the flash hole down inside the case where the primer holes were punched. If you are using Lupua cases skip this because they drill their holes and they have no burrs. Removing the burrs allows the powder to ignite evenly and thus you get a more consistent burn. You did not mention what loads or bullets etc you use. You can have the most accurate rifle in the world and have plain Jane bullets and it will not shoot well. The parallax of the scope can mess up your accuracy. The way you hold the rifle or let it recoil or not place it back on the rest the same way every time will mess with your accuracy. Plus the rifle will only shoot as accurately as YOU CAN SHOOT IT. So the quest goes on for accuracy. Good luck and good shooting.

 

[joed49]

do you use quality flags?

You'll have to tell me what quality flags are, I haven't a clue.

 

[joed49]

I'm already deburring the primer holes.

For bullets in the 06 I'm using Sierra 87 gr and Nosler 85 gr. It likes the Sierra just the slightest bit more then the Nosler using RL19 for powder, at 56.5 gr with a Fed BR primer. I will be switching to RL17 shortly as I tried some that my friend has. Amazingly it moves the 87 gr bullet at over 3625 fps (100 fps faster then RL19) and I see no less accuracy. For a scope this one is topped off with a Leupold M8 24x. I can not complain about accuracy on this gun, 5 shots is just a ragged hole. It is very consistent.

The 22-250 has been lack luster. I've found only 1 bullet that it likes and that is the 52 gr Sierra Match using 38.0 gr of Varget and the Fed BR primer. This has been the most accurate load I've found so far and produces 3720 fps with an ES of 9. For a scope I have a Leupold VXII 6x18. I can pretty much tell you that when this barrel is gone it will have a Krieger installed. But maybe in .243 instead of .22-250.

Reloading the 22-250 has been a humbling experience. I've learned that if I seat a bullet any longer then the 2.350 length in a load manual accuracy falls off quite badly. Still, I can cover 3 shots with a dime. This gun is still new and only has 60 rounds through it. But then the 06 only has 50 through the new barrel.

I'm just curious if I can gain anything by neck turning and using better seating dies.

 

[bheadboy]

JoED i have tried them all, over a 64 years of reloading and competieive shooting military,BR imsha, ipsic etc - pd and long range big game
my 2c worth - when money is a consideration
some Factory rem bbls are very good, others good

in order of steps taken

-free float, bed, adjust trigger to 2#
-brass, debur flash hole, sort to +/- .4gr, size,trim to length, turn necks
-bullets, start with Sierra blitzking as they are their target bullet with a plastic tip
-usint hornady gages, oal cartridge base to shoulder use .002" set back on dies
-using hornady gages, determin chamber to throat oal length and set dies to seat .010"jump to start - you can try more or less jump later

change only one of the following at a time
-powder, weigh all test charges = try 2-3 different powders that have a spread of burn rate closeto each other, ball and shortcut works best in measure but may not be best powder
-primers, try Rem, Fed, Russian std, not mag

I use RCBS but have come to prefer Redding dies, your press is ok

if the above does not get you under..4-.5" then :
have action trued, bbl crowned, try again,
if this does not work -by a bbl, I use Hart others are good too

following this proceedure i have rem bbs shooting 22-250 into .3", 222/223/221 family into .2" and 7-08,270,300wm shooting .5"

on some i have replaced the bbls and moved on when not satisfied
Good luck
Bob

 

[joed49]

Geez Bob, you don't seem to have any problem with the .22-250. Mine is the Cablelas Edition VS SPS Stainless that I bought in Oct last year. I ordered a B&C Medalist stock immediately and installed a Timney trigger. The stock showed up 1 day before Xmas. I sighted the gun in on Xmas day to get through a season of Coyote hunting.

Because it's cold during winter in OH it was not shot much. This rifle has been handicapped with a lack of range time as it's just been to cold and windy to dedicate much time to it.

I started out with H380 for powder but learned it is too temp sensitive. Every month the POI would change as it got colder. Varget at least has been consistent since switching.

If we ever get a nice day where I can get some range time in I may find it shoots as well as yours. Time will tell.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I'm just curious if I can gain anything by neck turning and using better seating dies.

To answer this you probably need to measure wall thickness of the cases necks and measure runout on loaded cases. Essentially if your runout is less than .002" then changing dies probably isn't going to help much. Same with neck thickness and concentricity if there isn't much variation then any changes are going to be difficult to see.

A lot of guys using Lapua brass aren't bothering to turn necks any more as the brass is good enough from the factory and turning it hasn't produced a noticeable difference in groups.

You might find improvements annealing brass - just from a consistency in neck tension point of view. Also with the varmint bullets they can vary a lot in their dimensions (relative to target bullets) so sorting them can help keep groups more consistent. These suggestions are assuming all of the rifle trueing and blueing is done.

Oh one other kinda left field point - my hit ratio went up a lot when I moved from the light bullets to the heaviest suitable varminters in the caliber...it meant I didn't get nearly the same hiding from the wind when reaching out.

 

[bozo699]

I agree with 6BRinNZ statements, I also would add you probably wont see a huge difference in your 100 yard groups but may see quite a bit of improvement the further out you go with your improved loads. They both sound like there shooting pretty well for mostly stock varmint rifles.
Wayne.

 

[rayporter]

flags= wind flags

cheaper than any option mentioned to shrink your groups on paper

 

[joed49]

flags= wind flags

cheaper than any option mentioned to shrink your groups on paper

I'll be darned, I am using wind flags for my hunting areas. Had no idea but they are a big help at long distance.

 

[TonyR]

I am a varmint hunter and have been loading for 34 years now. The two cartridges I use for varmint hunting are .22-250 and .25-06.

After browsing here I've wondered if I can obtain any more accuracy from my hand loads.

I've been thinking about neck turning and wondered what that will buy me for accuracy? Would it be a benefit?

Also started thinking about maybe a better seating die than just standard RCBS dies. Will this buy me anything?

For my rifle loading I use an RCBS Rock Chucker. Would I be able to use the precision seating dies in this press or do I need something else?

This is all new ground for me but I'm interested in learning more. Thanks in advance for any info.

Joe.
Before I started buying new dies and neck turning, I would buy a quality concentricity gauge like the H&H Industries and check the runout on your hand loads. I neck turn to improve the concentricity and uniform neck tension of my ammo and die can also have an effect on both. I think you can get away with a few thousandths of run out at mid-range but I try to keep everything for 1000 yards under 0.001 inches on the bullet ogive of a loaded round. If you know you have a concentricity problem, then you can explore ways to deal with it including new dies and neck turning. There are plenty of people on this site that do better than fine with no-turn necks so it can also be done that way. This is just how I've done it.