The merits of an overly expensive rifle

[jscandale]

I recently had a conversation with another forum member about the merits of a very expensive hunting rifle. How expensive? Not important. I'm not talking about a Holland & Holland or a Drilling or an English double, I'm talking about a standard Remington or Winchester or one of their many clones with a new barrel, a fancy stock, and a quality sight or optic.
There are many smiths out there who charge exorbitant amounts of money (in my opinion) for rifles that I have a very hard time seeing the value in. I have no doubt that they are done well and will shoot well, but how is $8 to10 grand justified for such a rifle.
I have several target and hunting rifles that I have about 3000 a piece into that are as accurate and reliable as any rifle made today, I think many of the readers here do as well, but what added value that could possibly warrant a 2-300% premium in selling price??
If anyone can bring me up to speed on this, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks,
JS

 

[TheSnake]

I don't believe I have seen the ones you speek of for 8 to 10K, but I think there could be several reasons for it:
Branding
Not knowing any better
A really good salesman
Great advertising
Bragging rights
Thinking if it cost more, it must be better
Having the money to blow
Too lazy to do the research
Keeping up with the Jones

I agree; that first rifle - 400.00 Savage 243 I just purchased for my son is shooting .3s at 100 with the first loads I worked up and it may do better with a little more development.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Anyone who would hike through the swamps and brush with an $8-$10 K Rem. or Win. rifle has way more money than they know what to do with.......

I can understand how they get to be that expensive if they are truely "handbuild", especially a stock, made from a blank, hand fit, maybe some inlays......at $135/hour it wouldn't take long.

This guy does nice work and it's his passion: http://hbrifles.com/

 

[jscandale]

Well, I never heard of of such a cost for that type rifle either until another member listed a rifle for sale and claiming such a value. The brand was a Jarrett custom rifle. I have seen other custom rifle builders claim that if you pay them lots of money, you will as happy with their work as they claim but 10 grand was a first for me too.
I have talked to many smiths about the pricing of their work and have always walked away shaking my head. This is the sole reason that I started to build my own target rifles. Having a background in machining, it was an easy fit. Since I have several great shooting rifles under my belt now, I question even more, why charge such a price for a rifle that does little more than a production rifle.
Price breakdown: a good stock cost $4-600, a good custom action costs about a grand, a barrel is about 400, all of the other miscellaneous parts including trigger guard, trigger, etc is about 500. The total is about $2500 for all top end stuff. Now, you add a scope and a case, let's say thats another $1200, the total is now $3700 plus the fee for putting it all together properly. A rifle that costs $8-10 grand is now including $4-6000 for shop time. Did I miss something here??? To do a really clean and sharp pilar bedding job on a bolt action is about $150 and the machine time to chamber and mount is about a couple of hundred. That still puts us at under $5000, so can I assume that the extra $3-5000 will include the cost of the hunt???

Again, did I miss something here???

JS

 

[jscandale]

I can understand how they get to be that expensive if they are truely "handbuild", especially a stock, made from a blank, hand fit, maybe some inlays......at $135/hour it wouldn't take long.

I can also see the the cost for such custom work such as engraving or hand carved super fancy Turkish walnut. Those guys are truly artists so the work that they produce is art. I am talking about a splatter painted stock like a Remington Sendero and nothing fancy to the metal.

JS

 

[JRS]

JS,

I owned one of these rifles at one time. Is it worth that kind of money? To me it was. If you deduct the cost of both Leupold scopes, Jarrett sling, aluminum gun case, supplied ammo, cost of ammo to work up the loads for the gun, the price is a bit more reasonable. It's all in what you want and can afford. You can go down to your local Cheapmart and buy a Casio watch or to your local Rolex dealer and buy one that does the same thing. With the Rolex, you get pretty much hand craftsmanship and of course the bragging rights. I could have purchased a 2011 shelby 500 at a good price, but placed an order for the 2012 limited Carroll Shelby signature edition. Both are 550 hp & 510 lb ft of torque. Why? Bragging rights and a little more hand assembly.
Another small but important note on the Jarrett rifles: after you receive the gun, they give you a full 30 days to look it over, fondle it, and shoot the daylights out of it for the entire 30 days. If you aren't satisfied with it..... send it back for a full refund. Does anyone else offer this?

 

[jscandale]

I can kinda see what you mean, but a Winchester action rifle with a speckle painted stock sure ain't no Rolex or a hand build Shelby. In my assessment of component cost, I listed all primo components, shop time has to be at least $75/hr just to keep the lights on, so I understand that there is production cost, but still, there is no other value added items or services that could possibly justify the price. As I said, I have a great appreciation for fine engraving and hand carved wood, it's an artistic skill, but these rifles have none of that.
I will make this statement right now, If there is anyone out there willing enough to pay me even the low low price of $6000 to duplicate one of these rifles, I would go get an FFL and offer the same guarantee without even batting an eye. You can take that to the bank. I would also go as far as saying that I know 5 other smiths that are capable of doing at least the same quality of work.
I guess what I am saying is that for a good machinist with mechanical skills, building a great rifle just isn't that hard. I am living proof of the fact.

JS

 

[JRS]

That guarantee just might have a little something to do with some of the additional cost. I don't know how many years Kenny Jarrett has been in business, but they remain in business today. I would imagine companies such as LEUPLOD would sell their optics for a lesser price without the lifetime warranty. Are some of the beautiful but expensive custom paint jobs on our guns really worth the money? After all, it won't make the gun shoot any better. It all boils down to personal preference IMHO.

 

[jscandale]

I guess...

 

[mattri]

3 shots @100 yards, a conservative 0.076".
Savage Target action: $450
Criterion barrel: $250
Vortex scope: $200
Used HS Precision stock: $150

Screwed it together myself in about an hour.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Well said Mattri! I have the same exact rifle components that you are using and some same results on paper.

For me, if my name isnt on it, it isnt worth dittle. I have just gotten into hand carved Osage Orange bows, takes months to make. Its a stick... a beautiful stick and it shoots unbelievably well, the guy i buy the aged wood from sells his for $1200.

I got myself a busted up Harley for a 20th bday present, I put over a year of work into it, top to bottom. Wouldnt trade it for a $50,000 Orange county bike with someone elses name on it.

Life is to short to think that someone can make something for you better than you can do it yourself.

 

[NateHaler]

Jarrett has the nerve to charge that much because a certain segment of the buying public believe that higher cost MUST mean it's that much better.

That's their choice all the way around.

As to "merit", I don't think it rates in the discussion, any more than a $900 bedding job from Chandler (an overhyped tactical rifle builder) does. It's not about merit.

 

[butchlambert]

I'm kinda in the middle on this. I do understand what JRS is saying. I personally wouldn't pay the price for the Jarret, but if you add the aluminum case, high dollar scope, sling, and range time to work up a load and a 100 rounds of loaded ammo it adds up. Sometimes he may need to put a barrel or 2 on it to get it to shoot the way he believes it should.
The people that know me also know that I hunt with my rifles that have very nice walnut stocks. The stocks alone are $5000 plus or so. I like them and that is what counts. Yes, I have a few glass stock rifles that I like and hunt with also.
I do all the work, wood and metal, on my BR rifles, all work on my glass stocked hunting rifles, and most of the metal work on my wood stocked rifles. I do not do wood stock work.
Below is a pic of the octagon banded front sight that I built for my Pierce receivered, wood stocked 6.5X47 Lapua. It has killed a couple hogs.

It took me a couple days to do the sight. I had to do it twice as the first one had tool marks that would have taken forever to clean up.

Does it shoot any better than my glass stocked 6.5X47Lapua? No but I love it and really enjoy fondling it, showing it off, and hunting with it. What do they say? Live is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. I do have a few of those and they do shoot well.
Butch

 

[JRS]

Man, that is a pretty piece of wood Butch 8) The rifle looks great

 

[TheSnake]

I don't know that the OP was talking about works of art like this one. Very nice Butch! The bullets probably even look better coming out of that barrel.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

This reminds me of all the people who say you are crazy to own a Colt SAA when you can buy a Ruger for 1/3 the cost.

 

[AWLEAPHART]

It’s all in the person who's buying or having the gun made. I worked with people in the pass that are the type of people that own companies and have a wad of money to spend.
(It’s like everyone on earths made different from one another.)
No matter these gentlemen have money; you’ll see one buy the cheapest rifle he can find. Then on the other hand the other wants the most expensive rifle there is to own. Now I know a burn Doctor who does a lot of research before buying. Now price to him is not a big thing but he buys what the results was out of his research that he thing will make a great shooting rifle.
Now,-talking about eight and ten thousand dollar guns. Kenny Jarrett is one gun maker that makes rifle that cost this much.
Anthony

 

[Forum Boss]

3 shots @100 yards, a conservative 0.076".
Savage Target action: $450
Criterion barrel: $250
Vortex scope: $200
Used HS Precision stock: $150

Screwed it together myself in about an hour.

Mattri,

Interested in that rifle as we've considered doing a project with a Criterion barrel. What is the chambering for that tackdriver?

 

[butchlambert]

I believe he may have meant $8-$10,000 glass stock rifles. For the most part I agree. I would come near paying D'Arcy Echols his price than any other glass stock custom guy. His primary work is on dangerous game rifles that feed and fire every time. I do not know his pricing, just his reputation and his attention to detail.
Not planing to do any DGR type hunting and will stay in OP's budget except on my woodstock customs.
Butch

 

[JRS]

Let's include the "other Butch", Butch.
Butch Searcy builds some mighty fine doubles and single shot stalkers