The bane of my existence...

[Tozguy]

Along the lines of the ‘cleaning should be easy’ attitude, I second Frank’s motion to wet the bore before leaving the range. My particular recipe is to stand the rifle on its muzzle on a thick absorbent pad and spray some Birchwood Casey Synthetic Gun Oil into the chamber and let gravity run it down the bore to the muzzle. The oil soaks the carbon and softens it up to ease later cleaning efforts. Plus, BC gun oil can get on almost anything else without damaging it.

Another way I help myself is to pre test cleaners before trying them in the rifle. It is much easier to see how a cleaner works if you try it on something visible. A little tour of the kitchen will turn up a cast iron skillet that has baked on carbon or a pizza pan that has some stubborn ‘fouling’ that the dishwasher can’t remove. My thoughts are that if the bore cleaner can’t clean a fry pan it probably isn’t worth trying it to clean a bore.
As mentioned in previous posts, the only way to KNOW how a cleaner is working is to SEE the results. A bore scope will let you inspect the bore but it is still a chore to try different cleaners in the rifle to find out they aren’t working. Any new cleaner I try has to pass the ‘fry pan test’ before it goes in the bore.

 

[BoydAllen]

On the application of Wipeout:
I use a cleaning rod guide that seals well, cover the stock comb, and apply directly from the can, at the muzzle, making sure to keep the nozzle tight to the end of the barrel for a few seconds so that the pressure will force the foam down the barrel. With a little practice, I have learned how long to squirt so that just a little bit of foam comes out of the back of the cleaning rod guide. I set up in a cleaning cradle, with the muzzle a little low, and over a plastic waste basket. As soon as the foam stops expanding I wipe off the excess, at the back of the rod guide and muzzle, and discard it,and the paper towel into the trash. Right after that, and any time that I have come into contact with the foam, or liquid, I wash my hands with hot water and soap. I learned this after only wiping my hands off well, and coming to the realization that the edges of my eyelids were burning a little, after wiping sweat off of my face, with the palm of my hand. Rinsing off my face, and then washing my hands solved the problem, and I made a mental note to wash my hands next time.

 

[spclark]

...laying down the hard surface (almost like a plating) of carbon. (snip) That's also the reason I believe a brush must be used: to get into those corners.

I agree. I tend to see carbon in the first six to ten inches of my bores. Up near the muzzle I may see copper, or I may not. My slowest twist is a 1:11 in 308, fastest is 1:7.5 in 6mm.

My regimen is to hit bores with Hoppe's #9 as soon as possible after a day's shooting, then do a more thorough job with Shooter's Choice & lot's of patches & bronze brush later on. Maybe an hour or two, never more than 24 hours.

Without the Hoppe's I just can't get carbon out no matter the product used or time spent. I can tell how effective my efforts are too with the 17" Hawkeye I bought a few years back. No better way to know for SURE what's going on inside....

Keep in mind too (I firmly believe!) there are components in some propellants (some brands list the ingredients on the packaging) specifically to CAUSE deposits to be left in bores, the better to lubricate later bullets' passage & reduce barrel wear.

Why else would a manufacturer introduce "polyester" to a propellant blend?

 

[HolyMeekrob]

My process as of late is this (for my AR):

Wipe out the chamber with Hoppes, then wet patch the bore until they come out, relatively, clean. Then, since I've found I have to be active in cleaning and allowing chemicals to dwell is useless, I wrap a patch around a .20 brush and go after the carbon with MPro7. Once those come out, relatively, clean I'll put some sort of copper solvent, whatever I'm in the mood to use, through, let it sit, wipe it out, oil, and store.
I don't have a borescope so I have to hazard a guess at the results by using the q-tip/flashlight method at the muzzle, and this cleaning method seems to be satisfactory, but I can't say for sure. I know that if I stuck a little JB in there the patch would come out pitch black, which I presume means there's still untouched carbon in the throat, but since I can't see, I can't be sure. Several people mentioned having borescopes, but unless there's one that doesn't require me to drop multiple hundred dollars I guess I won't be getting one any time soon.
As far as using kroil and other such oils, how long do you guys let it dwell?

 

[fdshuster]

HolyMeekrob: I know the borescope can be on the expensive side, about what you would have to pay for a mid-range rifle scope, $500 to $700. Mine cost $620 with the $75 rebate delivered to my door, from Lester Bruno. The 17" Deluxe with the hardcase has been my choice as the best for my needs. That being said, it has more than paid for itself in savings over the past 5 years. There are so many advantages to having one I could go on and on with another rambling posting, but will pass on that idea. If you ever get the opportunity to see one in action their value will become apparent.

 

[Tozguy]

Re borescopes, without one you will never know how clean or dirty your bore is.
JB will turn black from rubbing on steel even if there is no carbon. Try rubbing some JB on a clean piece of steel and you will see for yourself. A black JB patch is not absolute proof that you are getting carbon out.
In evaluating cleaners, the classic advice is to try a different cleaner after you think that a bore is clean. This is interesting to a point but doesn't this mean we end up trying every cleaner out there? Plus, sometimes it is better to leave some carbon in the bore. Reading patches is not a substitute for a borescope imo.

 

[Walt_NC]

fd:
No offense taken! To answer your question, I honestly don't know that I'm getting all of the carbon out. I'm just going for "good enough". I don't own a bore scope so my rule of thumb is to get at the carbon the best that I can with a brush and patches. I then run a couple of wet patches and let the rifle sit for an hour or so while I unpack my range bag, inspect my brass and throw it in the tumbler. Then I come back and run a patch wrapped around a brush. If it comes out without carbon, then it's clean enough for me.

 

[johara1]

Guys i've used them all and NOTHING cleans carbon and metal fouling with out the brush as good as Warthog 1134. I use Iosso ever now and then,no brushing,no soaking and very little damage to the crown over 2200 rds. I use a bore scope, and the barrel is here if any body wants to see it.........jim

 

[ratguner]

For my AR I have been using PB or Liquid Wrench to kill carbon. Slip2000 works but more expensive.
Saturate patches and let the chemicals work, then brush.

 

[fdshuster]

I'm in the process of breaking-in a new 6BRX chambering, done on a big name cut rifled stainless barrel, and the copper fouling is (surprisingly) heavy. Took the excellent advice of johara and am now using Warthog1134, and it is the most effective copper remover I have ever used- bar none! Cleaning routines that would take much more time with other solvents have been reduced to 15 to 20 minute's, and everything is gone from the bore: powder, copper and even traces of carbon, as seen in repeated before-and-after inspections with my borescope. It has been so effective I will have to re-think the continued use of my previously favored cleaning solvent(s).

 

[Tozguy]

It is great to discover a copper solvent that works fast. But do we know what it does to barrel steel? It is a bit of a mystery to me how a cleaner can act on one metal but not on another.
In The Benchrest Shooting Primer on page 364, there is some info about ammonia based cleaners causing pitting in some barrels. The Warthog website shows some tests done on bullets but wouldn't it be important also to have some test results of how cleaners act on barrel steel, especially for the cleaners that work fast on copper?

 

[Rookie]

I've used most of "Miracle Cleaners" on the market at 1 time or another. Even GM Top Engine Cleaner.
Now days My Bore scope shows what I'm doing works.
For carbon I use Sea Foam - it works great! http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html
3 wet patches, wait 30min and then 3 more wet patches, fallowed by 2-3 dry patches. Scope the bore to look for copper. If it needs attention I use JB paste on a tite jag/patch with a bore guide. After 12 or 15 passes I wipe the bore with Acetone and a couple dry patches. Scope it again and repeat as necessary.

 

[jo191145]

Other thoughts and observations:

Over the years I have used a number of bore solvents. I will buy a new solvent and use it for a while thinking it is the best solvent I have ever used. Months will go by and the new miracle solvent seams to lose its effectiveness. So I buy the next latest miracle solvent and find it works better than anything I’ve tried before. A few months later it no longer does the job as well as it did initially and I try something new again. This cycle has gone on and on for years with me. How can this be? I believe that many solvents degrade quickly over time and lose their effectiveness. Solvents tend to volatilize quickly, no matter whether they are in a little sealed bottle or not, especially under warm temperature conditions. If you go through a lot of solvent in a short period of time, then you are getting the most use out of that chemical.. But if you use that chemical sparingly over a longer period of time I believe the product becomes less effective due to extended evaporation/degradation. Some appear to “keep” a little longer than others. I have reached the conclusion that many solvents are most effective only when they are relatively fresh or preserved. In general, the older they get the less effective they become.

LE Hanson

I have noticed the same thing and reached the same conclusion.
Even my favorite water based cleaner Patch Out looses its effectivness with time.

 

[johara1]

I guess Warthog seems to scare people because it works so fast without harm to the barrels. I have tested it in two barrels and bore scoped the barrels and found that it doesn't harm them at all and the reduced use of the cleaning rod is a plus the lack of the brush use is a real plus.
I learned of Warthog from a shooter that used it in four different barrels and a total of over 10,000 rds. without harm. As far as hurting or damage,most people do more damage with a cleaning rod. I run on the average maybe 10 patches down the bore and i'm done, i only use a clean stainless rod and never pull the rod back unless the patch is removed. My crowns look good at over 2000 rds. with very slight rounding,before i use to have to recrowned at 500 rds.
a good stainless rod,bore guide no brush and Warthog works ........jim