The bane of my existence...

[HolyMeekrob]

Carbon.
I've tried hoppe's, shooter's choice, sweets, blue wonder, carb-out, tm solution, m-pro 7, and bore tech eliminator. They all work with varying degrees of competence on the loose stuff, but when I get down to the caked on crap they all seem to fail equally no matter the dwell time. The only thing I've found that takes it out is hitting it with a little iosso, but I wouldn't be too heartbroken if I never had to put an abrasive down my barrel again. I'd also like to ditch the brush, so when I hear about people patching this junk out in two or three runs I start to wonder if I'm missing some magical secret. Or maybe I'm just expecting too much from these solvents and I'm doomed to brushing.
So while I sit here waiting to see what m-pro 7 might do this time around, why not tell me what works for you?

 

[15Tango]

when I hear about people patching this junk out in two or three runs I start to wonder if I'm missing some magical secret.

These people have hand lapped match barrels that give them that ability or they're really not getting that stuff out and don't realize how much is really left in there. It looks clean and the patch is coming out clean doesn't mean it is - scope that bore and it's probably got a different story to tell.

Wayne

 

[fdshuster]

Without my Hawkeye borescope I would be guessing what is really going on inside my barrels, as it relates to cleaning, and barrel condition, firecracking, throat erosion, defects in a new barrel, etc. Normal cleaning is with Butch's with soak times as required for mild copper removal. For tougher copper and the really difficult to remove carbon JB bore paste with a snug fitting bronze brush works for me. Frequency of the JB/brush cleaning depends on what I see with the borescope. I've tried many, and have never found a liquid solvent that will remove carbon fouling.

 

[whiskey08]

We've beat the snot out of this question not to long ago, lots of opinions, great ideas, experience, and barrels with different propensity for fouling.

I think that the faster the twist, the more copper the barrel will strip. That might be why some people can get away without using a brush

I have to two krieger barrels, (10 twist) and have tried lots of different stuff. Ive settled on the bore tech carb and copper stuff, then kroil to finish it off. No matter how hard i try Ive always had to use a brush. Ill wet patch then hard brushing, then wet patch and hard brushing, then clean it all out with some kroil, then dry patch and its clean.

 

[jonbearman]

I have been trying mercury outboard Power Tune.It takes hard varnish off a carburator body including the carbon that builds up on the throat from minor backfires.It is gentle on the hands and smells mildly like mothballs.I doubt there is mothball chemical in it but it does dissolve carbon. It does not appear to attack any metals either.Just a thought. It comes out of the can like a mild foam and does stick to the carbon.

 

[40X Guy]

I experienced a carbon fouling problem late last summer on my 6AI rifle, After wondering why groups opened up, I took it to my smith who borescoped it and told me it had carbon fouling the first couple inches in the barrel. This after 162 rounds and only patching and using Wipe Out believing I would never have to brush again after having this rifle built.

Went home and did some searching on here, and ordered about every snake oil known besides the ones that I already had on hand which were many. To make a long story short, I found that GM Top Engine Cleaner, Hollands Witches Brew, and JB got the crud out along with bronze brushing, took a few hours, but rifle is back to where it was, and the bottom line is don't leave home without your bronze brushes. I did throw away and give away some of the stuff that simply did not work, and am back to regular brushing and patching with Butch's Bore Shine, Sweets, and Kroil. My barrels are all happy now.

Frank

 

[JabaliHunter]

I use wipe-out liquid (patch-out) on a patch for general cleaning.

For carbon, I also use Mercury/Quicksilver Power Tune and have found it very effective. I sometimes foam it up with a nylon brush, but not usually. I would say that if it wasn't a spray, it would be absolutely perfect, but that's just because I find it all too easy to spray it in places where I don't want it!
I have recently been advised to try KG-1 liquid but can't comment on its effectiveness.

Eezox oil seems to work very well and I degrease with isopropanol before firing.

Works for me!

 

[fdshuster]

Frank: I learned an expensive lesson last Summer about carbon build-up. Was using one of my 6ppc's a lot more than "normal" and got behind in my cleaning. With the identical loads I've been using since 1998, started blowing primers, and ruined one of Neil Jones's tuned triggers. Finally woke up, got the Hawkeye out and 'scoped the throat area. Yep, a heavy carbon build-up. Removed it with JB and a snug fitting bronze brush, and no problems since. A $70 (plus shipping) learning experience.

 

[40X Guy]

Yes, that carbon can mess up your barrel and your mind also. :'( I also have tryed the Hoppes Elite Bore Gel on a few other rifles and it seemed to work well. I also bought some KG-1 Carbon Remover but have not tried it out yet as by the time I got it, my problem was solved.

Frank

 

[TerryPohl]

Montanans extreme, and a good brushing works for me, But I never go over about 60 rounds between.
Terry Pohl

 

[artbosco]

Carbon.I've tried hoppe's, shooter's choice, sweets, blue wonder, carb-out, tm solution, m-pro 7, and bore tech eliminator. They all work with varying degrees of competence on the loose stuff, but when I get down to the caked on crap they all seem to fail equally no matter the dwell time. The only thing I've found that takes it out is hitting it with a little iosso, but I wouldn't be too heartbroken if I never had to put an abrasive down my barrel again. I'd also like to ditch the brush, so when I hear about people patching this junk out in two or three runs I start to wonder if I'm missing some magical secret. Or maybe I'm just expecting too much from these solvents and I'm doomed to brushing. So while I sit here waiting to see what m-pro 7 might do this time around, why not tell me what works for you?

JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound [not Bore Bright] has ALWAYS worked for me. I can actually feel when the the carbon has been removed because my entire Krieger barrel then feels nice and smooth.

When you initially clean and are pulling a brush [I use nylon] back through the barrel, you can feel where it's located. Usually there's heavy buildup 4 to 6 inches in front of the chamber and although you may not feel it, there's another spot or gap in the neck chamber just before it ends and freebore or the rifling begins. I use three to five tight fitting patches in the barrel and spin a brush about thirty revolutions in the chamber gap every time I clean, which is about every 50 rounds. But, just don't take my word for it. Here are some comments on JB Bore Cleaning Compound and abrasives by two well known sources:

"I personally believe in the use of JB Bore Cleaner... I use it after every yardage. 3 to 5 tight fitting patches with JB will get the powder fouling out... I do a full cleaning before I use JB and also after I use JB, to make certain I've got all the JB out of the barrel. ... Tony Boyer"

Source: The Benchrest Shooting Primer, ON THE TOPIC OF BARRELS, by Tony Boyer, Page 349, upper left.
-----------------------------------
Krieger Barrels Inc,: Q&A

Q: Will a paste-type bore cleaner such as J.B. hurt a barrel during cleaning?

A: No. There is nothing that we can find that shows that it will harm the barrel provided you use a rod guide and refrain from exiting the muzzle.
--------------------------------------

Instructions received from Krieger along with my Krieger barrel: Break-In and Cleaning, Under Cleaning:

"Abrasive cleaners work well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper, powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of of polishing the throat both in 'break in' and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life."

 

[Dgd6mm]

This is all solid advice. I polish my throat and bore every 200 or so rounds. It keeps that nasty carbon ring from messing with me. ;D Over 2000 rounds down my first 6CM and the throat looks almost new, wear is minimal, and still shoots like new.

 

[fdshuster]

outdoorsman" "Usually there's heavy buildup 4 to 6 inches in front of the chamber" and " there's another spot or gap in the neck chamber". You are right on with the area's where I find carbon. I've never seen it in the front half of the barrel length. Since it's related to the burning powder, these must be the areas where the heat is the most intense, laying down the hard surface (almost like a plating) of carbon. Checking the progress when doing a JB cleaning, it's always the sharp corners where the lands meet the grooves that are the last areas to clean up. That's also the reason I believe a brush must be used: to get into those corners.

 

[HolyMeekrob]

Well when it comes to copper removal I'm pretty much sold on wipe-out. Though if I've decided to clean when there's minimal fouling I'll use sweets or eliminator. Carbon is really the only problem I have with cleaning, and I'm aware that if I'm not getting all of the carbon then I also won't get all of the copper.
The issue I have with JB/Iosso is rather specific to this rifle. As I've said elsewhere, as shameful as it may be, my bolt rifles are collecting dust because I've been preoccupied with working on my AR. So when I used Iosso I tried to use it only in and around the throat and flush the barrel liberally. Nevertheless the next time out I found some of that tell-tale pink film blown back inside my action so some of it must have ended up in the gas port. I don't know that it would be any more harmful in the action than in the barrel, but still makes me nervous.

 

[StevenDzupin]

Easy-Off oven cleaner,caustic but it works.

Just be sure to remove all of it !

Use protection !!!

Regards,

Steve

 

[Walt_NC]

+1 on the Kroil.

I run 2-3 wet rags at the range, followed by a few brush strokes, followed by 2-3 more wet rags. I case my rifle to let it soak on the ride home. By the time I get home, the carbon comes out without much of a fight. I think it has something to do with letting the solvent soak while the barrel is still warm, though I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

Hope you find something that works for you.

 

[fdshuster]

Walt_NC: Not questioning your methods at all, so please don't take offense, but how do you know you're geting the carbon out of the barrel? Copper is easy since it leaves a blue/green on the patches, but carbon fouling can be built up in the bore, and the patches will come out clean as they went in. I've often believed my bores were carbon free until I went into them with my Hawkeye borescope. What a rude awakening for me. Most of my barrels (Bartlein,Krieger,Hart, etc.) are good for 150 to 200 rds. max. before carbon begins to be a problem and that's usually the time when they will get the serious JB/bronze brush cleaning, but not down to bare metal, since that always requires as many as 15 or 20 rds. fired before the barrel settles down. I prefer to just keep it under control. I also prefer to wet the bore down before leaving the range and the soak time seems to make cleaning easier. As seen with the borescope, the carbon is easier to remove if you can get to it as quickly as possible after firing.

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that Wipeout will soften carbon to the point that, after patching it out, you can go back in with something like BBS and a fresh bronze brush, knock it loose and then wet patch it out. I use this on varmint rifles at the end of a shooting day, a short (1-2 hr.) soak with wipeout, patch out, and then reapply and let is soak all night. The next morning, patch that out, and then brush with Butch's, wet and dry patch. My 6PPc barrels have always passed bore scope inspection. I shoot 133, and clean with BBS, patches, and bronze brushes. I think that in addition to barrel interior finish, the other big variables are what powder, and the pressure it is loaded to. Clean powders at high pressures seem to create the least fouling.

 

[fdshuster]

Boyd: Clean burning is one of the main reasons I try to use VV powders as the first choice, and I'm usually able to tell the degree of carbon fouling in the bore, by how much is depostited on the case neck, as it comes out of the chamber. With VV, as you said loaded to the higher pressures, like for the 6ppc's, the necks are very clean. A little more carbon when I have to use Varget with the mid to heavyweight bullets, and coal black case necks, and verified in the bore, when I was using 748, H380, H414 and a few other ball powders: clearly the worst examples for carbon fouling. A really good article in "The Benchrest Shooting Primer", beginning on page 215, about clean vs dirty powder. Really a shame that so many of the ball powders are so dirty. In most of my rifles (the AR-15's especially) they produced excellent velocities and group sizes. I've tried using Wipe Out, and wish I could get it to work, but had so much trouble with the out-of-control foam going everywhere but down the bore I've had to limit it's use. Yes, I tried all the tight fitting neoprene tubes, "just a tiny squirt", etc., but for me it ran out of control like something from a science-fiction movie. I think the important thing is to get something into the bore as soon as possible after firing. As an example if I wipe off the case neck as it comes out of the chamber, the carbon is easily removed. If I let the carbon remain for several hours, or worse days, it's very difficult to remove.

 

[jonbearman]

I prefer mercury power tune,it really works and a nylon brush.I let it soak for a few hours and brush it and patch it dry then back to butch's and patching with it till the copper is down to acceptable.