Temp sensitive powders

[JSH]

Maybe I have just been lucky, or I don’t shoot in -20 or 110 degree weather?

I have shot large amounts of 748 and H335 over the years spring,summer and fall. Minute of coyote or crow at guesstimated distances. Shoot a lot for my pleasure at 100-200. I have not had an pressure issues or any accuracy that I myself attribute to temperature.
I am back to the 22-250 and using H380 again. Gent saw the groups and inquired, told him the load which is no great secret 50-55 bullet and 38 grains of H380. I was informed it was a terrible powder and I would have nothing but issues. Maybe..... how many tons of the stuff has been burned with that load?

I use XXX powder that is new in the last 20 or so years, then I am informed I should discontinue using it as it is temp sensitive.

Maybe I need to up my rate of fire, get the barrel hot then let a round set and cook for a few minutes?

Tell me what I am not seeing and I will look for it.
I am limited to 200 anymore. Civilization has encroached on me and lost all of my long range places. Though the new asphalt street on one of them would be good on cloudy days so there is no mirage, neighbors would probably get excited though, lol. Funny thing the burm I shoved up with an old 955 CAT 25+ years ago was still at the end of that dead end street, they would go nuts if the new how much lead was in there.

 

[venatic]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. That kind kind of stuff didn’t matter until affordable quality range finders became available to the masses. Now thanks to that and the internet everyone is Expert

 

[Adam in WI]

Loaded most of my 223 with BL(C)-2 when I first started out. Went down the list in the Lee manual and picked the first one that was in stock at the time. Seemed to shoot more than adequately.

 

[JSH]

Kind of on the same lines as my main question.
It is always the gun, barrel,scope,bullet, carbon ring copper fouling, planets out of alignment, never the person on the trigger.

I am sure temps can play havoc, but seems like it is another scape goat.

 

[xswanted]

I’ve shot some of the most labeled “temp sensitive” powders in the summer and In extreme cold.

Haven’t ever ran across a powder that doesn’t slow down when it gets cold. Load to the speed the load shot in the warm weather and it seems to always work for accuracy nodes.

For most coyote shooting in the winter a guy would t need to worry.

There is a lot of marketing behind powders. Hodgdon and IMR. Alliant and the others all sell you what they want to swell you based in the data they publish.

 

[Mauser06]

Not any sort of qualified expert by any stretch.


But I have personally seen my 35 Whelen shoot. Below 45 degrees or so, if I can pull the trigger right, it shoots as well as any Remington 7600 I've seen. The warmer it gets, the bigger groups that same load shoots.

I developed that load in the dead of winter.


It's getting switched over to Varget this year. Finally down enough to need to load more for it. Already have the varget load worked up and it seemed to shoot well over the course of normal hunting temps. 25-60 degrees.

Does 1/4-1/2" bigger group matter when I'm shooting deer at 35yds with a 225gr bullet? Probably not. Lol. But, this site exists because that 1/4" drives a bunch of us nuts.



I did dial back a Varget load in a 22-250. It was shooting bugholes probably at a high end node. But it was like 20 degrees out. It's a groundhog rifle. Dead of summer. 80-90+ in direct sunlight for hours sometimes. I didn't even get to test accuracy in warmer temps. I think it was in the 60s. First round was obviously hot. 2nd round showed the same. Being new to reloading I called my mentor. He put the pieces together and realized it was a heat issue.

Poor example as that would probably be the issue with any powder on the market...developing a hot load on the edge of pressure in the cold could be dangerous.

 

[BoydAllen]

Some folks get fascinated with specifications to the point that it seems to overrule their common sense. Generally, I have always known how temperature affects pressure for the powders that I was using. I never was one to load up a lot of ammunition beyond what I expected to use within the next month. I tended to favor ball powders because they were easy to throw directly from a measure and I do not ever remember having any problems, either accuracy or pressure. Of course I have always believed that if you want more speed than is comfortably achieved with a given case, that you should switch to a larger one. None of my varminting loads were hot enough so that ambient temperature would cause pressure issues. The other thing that relates to this is that many years ago, I recognized that it was a waste to keep torturing my very good varmint rifles in hopes that they would perform like actual benchrest rifles and so I built an actual range only rifle, for bench shooting, and for that always have loaded at the range, making on the spot tuning a regular feature of my outings. This is not to say that all of my loads have been with ball powder, but I have burned a lot of 748 even in my .222 bench rifle.

On the other hand, I have a friend who used to work up very hot loads, with ball powders, in the winter, for prairie dog trips in the heat of summer. He often had pressure issues, and became convinced that ball powders are evil and to be avoided.

There are some very good powders that are less sensitive to temperature. I use some of them, but it is not the primary criterion that I use for choosing one.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Im also missing something with the temp sensitive powders. I have shot a massive load of N160 through the African sumer and then through winter and I havnt seen anything that would leed me to believe i need 2 or 3 different loads year round yet the internet would tell you N160 will drive you crazy when the temps swing. I keep my loaded ammo in n wooden boks out of direct sunlight as long as I can and who knows maybe that helps, I imagine if you let your ammo freeze or coock in direct sunlight even the most “temp stable” powders can act differently

 

[Rich Lee]

several years ago I had a couple hundred 22-250 shells loaded to the max with h380 and was shooting prarie dogs on a hot day 90 or better in northeast colo and after a few shots even with my single shot savage the barell heated up . Anyway I chambered one in then that dog went down so it was maybe 15 min before I got anothewr shot and when I did I hit the dog at about 200 yards but when I bolted that round out I noticed the primer was missing. I found it stuck in my bolthead. With the next 2 shots I blew the primers and believe me you do not blow a primer unless you are over pressure. Anyway I put my ammo box in my yeti coller and after about 25 minutes took a round out and fired it and no blown primer. Kept my ammo in the cooler and never had any more problems. Have never loaded another round with h380 since. Now I only load with temp sensitive powder, Varget for the 22-250 and even on hot days I have never had another blown primer and yes I have 2 barells in my reloading room that came off that 22-250 that are decorations so have had them pretty hot. Have a jim hart barrel on it now so take caution to not get it to hot plus now when shooting p d I take at least 2 and sometimes 3 rifles and don't get any of them to hot.

 

[JSH]

Boyd, your first sentence mentions “common sense” something I see lacking more every day. It can’t be taught and there is no pill for it.

Rich I do the cooler thing with my ammo as well. And what isn’t in the cooler is under shade out of the sun, even if it’s in the cab I leave windows down some and out of the sun.
I have been with guys that have pulled up to a dog town, flop down the tailgate and start shooting. Issues come up fairly quick sense they have been driving around with ammo in the sun for a while.
No kidding,one of them always kept a raw hide mallet in his tool box to beat bolts open!
I shoot with a fellow that is pretty serious on his .22RF stuff. He comes to the line with his ammo in a little cooler and only takes out what he is going to shoot in that string. His collection of wood and awards is hard to argue with.

 

[Zero333]

Powder temp stability is only important at extended ranges and if cold bore and hot bore have to hit the same spot.

I shoot tons of Win-748 in 308win & 223rem, and have not found it to be temp sensitive.
Might not be as good as Varget but it's more than good enough.

Maybe many years ago 748 was temp sensitive ?,. I don't know because the first time I used 748 was in 2014 when I started loading gas guns ammo on a progressive press.

Most temp unstable powder I've used was RL-22 in a 243win.