Switching F-Open Rifles between strings

[bsumoba]

Reading the rules, it seems that one can switch rifles between stages/strings or matches.

So for example, in a Palma COF, I one can shoot say a 6 Dasher at 800, 284 variant at 900 and 300 WSM at 1K or simply....one can choose his/her caliber/rifle/combination before starting another string based on conditions.

This topic came up recently because the beginning of the day started out as "6 Dasher" conditions with very little wind. Then, as the day progressed, a 2-3'ish MOA condition with fast letoffs and pickups ruled the the rest of the match, where possibly a 300 WSM ot 284 variant would be better suited. Of course, a down/broken rifle makes sense to let the shooter switch rifles.

Now, this seems to be advantageous in a Palma COF, but maybe at US Nationals where everything is at 1K not so much.

What's your opinions on this rule for F-Open and do you think there would be any advantage?

 

[nhm16]

I would only do it if there were unlimited sighters for each strings, but even then I don't know that I'd do deliberately (as opposed to mechanical issues, your barrel suddenly shooting poorly, etc).

 

[280man]

It really depends on how the match bulletin is written.

 

[XCount]

Rule book page 71
F-Class Rules 9.1

 

[XCount]

That's a great way to frame the question Brian. This topic is going to blow up.

 

[bsumoba]

I guess no opinions yet, so I'll go...

As much as I like the idea of switching rifles/calibers based on the conditions or that day, I am on the side of not being able to switch between stages/strings after going for record of the 1st string/stage of that day unless the rifle is deemed broken or not shoot-able. For the sling shooters, they are not allowed to and since we are a subset of the highpower group, it makes sense to not be able to switch rifles. Once the day is over and all the strings/stages are complete for that day, then I believe one can switch rifles all they want, but when they go for record the next day, that particular rifle is what will be used for the entirety of the day, and so on and so forth for multi-day matches.

Maybe there can be a compromise and allow (1) rifle/caliber change during the course of a day, so in a (3) string/stage day, they are allowed to change rifles (1) time between a string/stage???

From what I was told, there were times the sling guys had to write the SN# of the action on the rifle they shot on that string/stage to prevent their rule from being broken.

OF COURSE...you still have to read the wind so maybe this is not an issue.

But, I cannot help but think if there are light conditions early in the AM, then bad winds on the 2nd string, to light winds on the last string that one would go 6 Dasher, then 300 WSM, then maybe back to the 6 Dasher or 284.

It would be like golf! :

 

[Lapua40X]

Rule book page 71
F-Class Rules 9.1

Seems pretty clear to me .....

9.1 Changing Rifle––A competitor may change rifles to another of the
same or different caliber only between fired matches or between stages of a
multiple stage match even if these stages are included in an aggregate match.
A competitor may not change his or her rifle during the firing of a single
stage unless it has become disabled and has so been designated by the Chief
Range Officer. For the purpose of this rule, the firing of a stage is considered
to have started when the competitor has fired his or her first record shot. A
claim that a rifle is disabled must be made immediately. All shots fired up
to the time of the claim is made will stand as part of the official score. (See
Rules 10.9 and 10.10.)

 

[Lbart]

Bsumoba,
I have been shooting FC since its beginning and I do not see any valid reason to change F-Class 9.1 rule back to the sling version. It does not hurt anyone and gives no one an undue advantage.

Rule 9.1 was changed years ago for F-class at the request of a large number of FC shooters. Their reasoning was not to gain an advantage of better grouping or less recoil rather it made no sense to these shooters to burn out a barrel intended for long range at the shorter ranges. Some matches such as the Spirit of America include 300, 500, 600, 900/1k stages each day. So an option to change was instituted. To make another rule change I feel would serve no useful purpose.

BTW, I normally shoot a different rifle each day in the 1,000 yard FCN's just so I don't have to clean a rifle every day. I shoot one rifle one day, another the 2nd and then clean both and start over.

Let's leave the rules alone and enjoy the shooting.

 

[bsumoba]

Bsumoba,
I have been shooting FC since its beginning and I do not see any valid reason to change F-Class 9.1 rule back to the sling version. It does not hurt anyone and gives no one an undue advantage.

Rule 9.1 was changed years ago for F-class at the request of a large number of FC shooters. Their reasoning was not to gain an advantage of better grouping or less recoil rather it made no sense to these shooters to burn out a barrel intended for long range at the shorter ranges. Some matches such as the Spirit of America include 300, 500, 600, 900/1k stages each day. So an option to change was instituted. To make another rule change I feel would serve no useful purpose.

BTW, I normally shoot a different rifle each day in the 1,000 yard FCN's just so I don't have to clean a rifle every day. I shoot one rifle one day, another the 2nd and then clean both and start over.

Let's leave the rules alone and enjoy the shooting.

This is great! I understand now the intent of the rule change and never looked at it this way myself.

And I do agree that there is probably no advantage. A good example is a 6 Dasher edged everyone out in this past weekend's CA State Palma Match against the likes of the 7 RSAUM, 284 Shehane, and 300 WSM

Proving that again, still got to read the wind. ;D

That being said, a 6 Dasher is in the works for me. I have seen too many guys winning with the 6 Dasher that I cannot pass up chambering a rifle in one for midrange and light condition LR. I think a 6 Dasher and 284 Shehane will cover all my F-Open needs

 

[Immike]

At Our last midrange match of the year 2013 I watched Brian Bowling take his barrel off and switch it out between relays. He had it sighted in with the 2 sighters and never dropped a point from it. Try that one!

 

[Erik Cortina]

Bsumoba,
I have been shooting FC since its beginning and I do not see any valid reason to change F-Class 9.1 rule back to the sling version. It does not hurt anyone and gives no one an undue advantage.

Rule 9.1 was changed years ago for F-class at the request of a large number of FC shooters. Their reasoning was not to gain an advantage of better grouping or less recoil rather it made no sense to these shooters to burn out a barrel intended for long range at the shorter ranges. Some matches such as the Spirit of America include 300, 500, 600, 900/1k stages each day. So an option to change was instituted. To make another rule change I feel would serve no useful purpose.

BTW, I normally shoot a different rifle each day in the 1,000 yard FCN's just so I don't have to clean a rifle every day. I shoot one rifle one day, another the 2nd and then clean both and start over.

Let's leave the rules alone and enjoy the shooting.

This is great! I understand now the intent of the rule change and never looked at it this way myself.

And I do agree that there is probably no advantage. A good example is a 6 Dasher edged everyone out in this past weekend's CA State Palma Match against the likes of the 7 RSAUM, 284 Shehane, and 300 WSM

Proving that again, still got to read the wind. ;D

That being said, a 6 Dasher is in the works for me. I have seen too many guys winning with the 6 Dasher that I cannot pass up chambering a rifle in one for midrange and light condition LR. I think a 6 Dasher and 284 Shehane will cover all my F-Open needs

I bet Steve Blair did not show up with his 300 WSM or I'm sure the outcome would have been different. Steve's .300 WSM with 230's eats Dashers and $hits X's! LOL

 

[bsumoba]

Bsumoba,
I have been shooting FC since its beginning and I do not see any valid reason to change F-Class 9.1 rule back to the sling version. It does not hurt anyone and gives no one an undue advantage.

Rule 9.1 was changed years ago for F-class at the request of a large number of FC shooters. Their reasoning was not to gain an advantage of better grouping or less recoil rather it made no sense to these shooters to burn out a barrel intended for long range at the shorter ranges. Some matches such as the Spirit of America include 300, 500, 600, 900/1k stages each day. So an option to change was instituted. To make another rule change I feel would serve no useful purpose.

BTW, I normally shoot a different rifle each day in the 1,000 yard FCN's just so I don't have to clean a rifle every day. I shoot one rifle one day, another the 2nd and then clean both and start over.

Let's leave the rules alone and enjoy the shooting.

This is great! I understand now the intent of the rule change and never looked at it this way myself.

And I do agree that there is probably no advantage. A good example is a 6 Dasher edged everyone out in this past weekend's CA State Palma Match against the likes of the 7 RSAUM, 284 Shehane, and 300 WSM

Proving that again, still got to read the wind. ;D

That being said, a 6 Dasher is in the works for me. I have seen too many guys winning with the 6 Dasher that I cannot pass up chambering a rifle in one for midrange and light condition LR. I think a 6 Dasher and 284 Shehane will cover all my F-Open needs

I bet Steve Blair did not show up with his 300 WSM or I'm sure the outcome would have been different. Steve's .300 WSM with 230's eats Dashers and $hits X's! LOL

He admittedly was not there and would have made for an interesting match.

Side note, another shooter, Will, shot his dasher at 800 on day 2 and scored a 150-14X with his last 3 sighters being an X! :

Still a good turnout of (9) F-Open shooters though. Something tells me we will see more than (9) at the Sac Valley Zins LR Regional in a couple weeks. I can't wait!

 

[Erik Cortina]

Bsumoba,
I have been shooting FC since its beginning and I do not see any valid reason to change F-Class 9.1 rule back to the sling version. It does not hurt anyone and gives no one an undue advantage.

Rule 9.1 was changed years ago for F-class at the request of a large number of FC shooters. Their reasoning was not to gain an advantage of better grouping or less recoil rather it made no sense to these shooters to burn out a barrel intended for long range at the shorter ranges. Some matches such as the Spirit of America include 300, 500, 600, 900/1k stages each day. So an option to change was instituted. To make another rule change I feel would serve no useful purpose.

BTW, I normally shoot a different rifle each day in the 1,000 yard FCN's just so I don't have to clean a rifle every day. I shoot one rifle one day, another the 2nd and then clean both and start over.

Let's leave the rules alone and enjoy the shooting.

This is great! I understand now the intent of the rule change and never looked at it this way myself.

And I do agree that there is probably no advantage. A good example is a 6 Dasher edged everyone out in this past weekend's CA State Palma Match against the likes of the 7 RSAUM, 284 Shehane, and 300 WSM

Proving that again, still got to read the wind. ;D

That being said, a 6 Dasher is in the works for me. I have seen too many guys winning with the 6 Dasher that I cannot pass up chambering a rifle in one for midrange and light condition LR. I think a 6 Dasher and 284 Shehane will cover all my F-Open needs

I bet Steve Blair did not show up with his 300 WSM or I'm sure the outcome would have been different. Steve's .300 WSM with 230's eats Dashers and $hits X's! LOL

He admittedly was not there and would have made for an interesting match.

Side note, another shooter, Will, shot his dasher at 800 on day 2 and scored a 150-14X with his last 3 sighters being an X! :

Still a good turnout of (9) F-Open shooters though. Something tells me we will see more than (9) at the Sac Valley Zins LR Regional in a couple weeks. I can't wait!

Will's Dasher had an encounter with Blair's .300 WSM in the past, and I believe Will now shoots a .300 WSM as well.

Gary Childs did well in Phoneix with his SAUM, I'm sure he will do well at Sac Valley.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I would only do it if there were unlimited sighters for each strings, but even then I don't know that I'd do deliberately (as opposed to mechanical issues, your barrel suddenly shooting poorly, etc).

Some ranges have a "blow off" range wherein a competitor may foul his golf bag of rifles before first match starts in the morning. For those that don't, and the particular matches of the day allow first unlimited sighters, and then only 2 sighters, etc; I know of no rule preventing a competitor from taking TWO rifles to the line for the first sighter period. Thusly, foul the barrel and check zero of the rifle that you do not intend to shoot until later, if at all; and lay it aside. Then, mount up the rifle that you intend to shoot that first match and proceed as normal...it's all on your available time! I would suppose that a nimble and gutsey switch barrel shooter could do the same?

Dan

 

[XCount]

Turns out the NRA Natiional Record for F-Open 800yd 15 shot is a Fullbore record of 15-15X. Guess I missed it by one X and they don't keep records for F-Open Palma except overall score anyway. It was my only highlight of the weekend. Great shooting with you all, see you in Folsom.

 

[Lbart]

Dang! I wish people would use real names on these sites! I know who Mike, Eric and Danny are but haven't a clue who bsumoba, Lapua40x or XCount are.

 

[nikmon2]

...
A good example is a 6 Dasher edged everyone out in this past weekend's CA State Palma Match against the likes of the 7 RSAUM, 284 Shehane, and 300 WSM
...

Even worse - a .308 had the high score at 1000y both days - just saying

Cheers,
Nik

 

[XCount]

...
A good example is a 6 Dasher edged everyone out in this past weekend's CA State Palma Match against the likes of the 7 RSAUM, 284 Shehane, and 300 WSM
...

Even worse - a .308 had the high score at 1000y both days - just saying

Cheers,
Nik

 

[XCount]

Because the Nut behind the butt was YOU Nick! Congrats on another stellar performance.

My name is Will McCloskey btw. I'm an F-open shooter from Madera Ca. And I sometimes switch rifles in between stages from a Dasher to 300 WSM.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Reading the rules, it seems that one can switch rifles between stages/strings or matches.

So for example, in a Palma COF, I one can shoot say a 6 Dasher at 800, 284 variant at 900 and 300 WSM at 1K or simply....one can choose his/her caliber/rifle/combination before starting another string based on conditions.

This topic came up recently because the beginning of the day started out as "6 Dasher" conditions with very little wind. Then, as the day progressed, a 2-3'ish MOA condition with fast letoffs and pickups ruled the the rest of the match, where possibly a 300 WSM ot 284 variant would be better suited. Of course, a down/broken rifle makes sense to let the shooter switch rifles.

Now, this seems to be advantageous in a Palma COF, but maybe at US Nationals where everything is at 1K not so much.

What's your opinions on this rule for F-Open and do you think there would be any advantage?

I love it. It is advantageous and convenient; otherwise, the majority of us would not be investing in 3 or 4 multi-cartridge, complete F-Open rifles .

Dan