Sweet's 7.62

[Travelor]

I searched and could not find anything on this copper solvent. So here is my question:

Do you use Sweet's and if so what has been your experience with it?

In the past I was warned to stay away from this as the ammonia content is so high it was thought that it damaged barrels. The BR guys seem to swear by it so I am looking again at it.

George

 

[FryeGuy]

well, I just started using it myself. The smith who built my last gun told me to use it. he also said to never let it dry in barrel, as it was possible to damage it. I don't think he had actually ever seen one damaged from it, so who knows. He told me put a few wet patches thru bore and let it sit for 7 minutes and clean it out. I asked him how long it took for the stuff to "dry out", he said over an hour. I don't think I have ever let any cleaner in the bore more than 10 minutes, so it doesn't matter. He also instructed me to not use a bronze brush with it. The way he described his cleaning process, he uses it more as a copper indicator. if copper is in there, then after 7 minutes soaking in sweets it will show on dry patches for sure. I have used pro-shot copper cleaner, which I think doesn't really clean that well, Butch's, which I like, and use all the time. When Butch's patches came out clean after brushing (no-blue), even after a couple of minutes soaking, I would dry the bore out, and do the sweets for 7 minutes. several times it showed copper that butches didn't. He did instruct me to never leave any cleaner in the bore before running sweets in there, and to also clean out all the sweets before other cleaners go in.

 

[flatlander]

I think FryeGuy's advice is spot-on. I used Sweets years ago, but don't like messing with something with that much ammonia. My current cleaning regimen includes overnight soaking with Shooters Choice, and depending on how much copper indication I get the next morning, BoreTech Eliminator for copper. Usually, the only place I see any copper with a Hawkeye borescope is out at the last 2"-3" at the muzzle. If there's enough carbon in the throat to merit, I'll use IOSSO bore paste on a patch wrapped around a nylon brush to get it and whatever copper's left at the muzzle. The borescope tells me when I need to use what; don't know how I got along without it.

 

[1000yardstare]

Have been using Sweets since the 1980s in my Palma rifles and hunting rifles. Back then Sweets was the best available for copper buildup.

Shoot F Class now. Modern custom target barrels are so smooth that I don`t use Sweets in them.

The formula 25 years ago was thinner much like the other bore solvents. The last bottle of Sweets I bought is thick like syrup. Don`t know the reason for the change in formulation.

To be honest I now prefer Barnes CR10 over Sweets for my hunting rifles. The CR10 is faster acting and runs thin. But still the warning about only leaving in the bore for 5 minutes.

 

[BoydAllen]

I once ruined a barrel (chromoly) by forgetting to wipe the Sweets out of it. That put an end to my use of it. IMO it is not so much about the percentage of ammonia, but the way that it is compounded in a particular solvent. Luckily, the fellow that chambers my barrels uses a muzzle flush system when he is cutting the chambers, and I think because of this, and his general high level of skill, my competition barrels (all hand lapped) never need much breaking in. If I need to get rid of copper in a factory barrel, I generally use Wipe Out bore cleaning foam, and I have been able to leave it in a bore over night with no problem. I also have Patch Out if I want to work in a shorter time span, I use this with Accelerator to speed up the process. Generally, I have seen that Benchrest shooters who "test" their barrels with Sweets seem to have a situation where they are always having to go to strong cleaners to remove copper. Although I have read of tests where shooters have put Sweets on a piece of stainless for long periods with no harm, I don't believe that these tests have involved the other combustion byproducts that are in a bore that has been fired repeatedly. It is almost as if their use of Sweets was putting a micro etch on their bores that made them pull more copper off of bullets, starting a cycle that requires the continual use of a stronger cleaner. I believe that bores that have been properly broken in have a sort of patina that should not be completely scrubbed out, that they should be cleaned, but only clean enough to return them to peak accuracy. I have a couple of friends who have bore scopes, that I use to periodically check my bores. They always pass muster. One of my friends, when he first got his bore scope developed a bad case of "bore scope disease" worrying about every little speck that he saw, whether he saw any effect on accuracy by its being there or not. This caused a lot of unnecessary tail chasing as he would over clean, and then have to spend rounds to foul barrels back to the point where their accuracy was stable. Eventually, he got the message, and learned what was important,and what was not, using his targets as an indicator. I think that Sweets can be the same way. Just because your patches show a light tint does not mean that your barrel needs an industrial cleaning. "Listen" to your targets.

 

[artbosco]

I searched and could not find anything on this copper solvent. So here is my question:

Do you use Sweet's and if so what has been your experience with it?

In the past I was warned to stay away from this as the ammonia content is so high it was thought that it damaged barrels. The BR guys seem to swear by it so I am looking again at it.

Here's what Benchrest Hall of Fame inductee Thomas [Speedy] Gonzalez has to say about it in paragraph B. Solvents: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Barrel%20Break-In.htm

I use one or two patches each time I clean.

I had a discussion about it one day a few years back with Arnold Jewell of Jewel Trigger fame. He told me he once cut off a piece of stainless steel barrel, plugged it on one end, filled it with 7.62, sealed it on the opposite end, and a year later opened it and found 7.62 had no harmful affect on the stainless. What affect it has on other types of steel I can't tell you. You might experiment yourself, just like A.J.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I used 7.62 for years. I never had any barrel damage, but I was using it in factory barrels - I'm not sure you could tell.

All in all, it was an okay solvent - smelled bad, but made neat looking blue patches.

I've tried a lot of cleaners. Right now I'm using CU+2 from Boretech for general copper control. Heavy cleaning gets KG-12.

If you want something that removes copper, KG-12 does it. The down side is that it doesn't indicate when the bore is clean. That is where CU+2 comes in. I use KG-12, flush the bore and dry it. Then I use CU+2 with a 5 min soak time to see what is going on (no borescope here). If I do my part (remembering not to use a brass jag) I can get a yeah or nay on whether any copper is present. I've never, however, had a positive copper indication after using the KG-12 though (other than when I forget about the jags!)


Would I whole-heartedly promote KG-12? Not yet, I still have some testing to do. I want to verify my results with a borescope before I go on record.

BTW, I did the soak a bullet test with both CU+2 and KG-12. The CU+2 took a very small amount of weight off of a 155 grain 30 cal bullet - More etched it than anything in 24 hours. The bullet soaked in KG-12 only got 20 hours, but the bullet lost 10 grains and .0025 in diameter - It will fall into a fully sized case.

caveat emptor

 

[fdshuster]

Recently broke in a new premium hand lapped cut rifled barrel ( 6mm) and copper fouling was extreme, for the first 18 to 20 ronds fired. Tried my old container of Sweet's, changed over to Warthog 1134, and found the Warthog to be much more effective and quicker than Sweet's. Using it greatly reduced the time required in removing the copper. I'm very impressed with Warthog 1134. The claims they make on their web-site are true, not advertising hype!

 

[rayporter]

drop a penny or a bullet in a bottle and post when you see damage to it.

if you think that air is needed for reaction wrap a penny in a rag and soak it in sweets and post when you see damage to it.

 

[fdshuster]

I'm in the middle of doing a little informal test of my own. Took a 55 gr. Speer 22 cal FMJ and let it soak in Sweets for 12 hours. very little change in the appearance of the bullet jacket, and the solvent is the same color after 12 hours as it was at the beginning. At the same time soaked a penny, dated 2010 in Sweets, same results. Since mid 1982, penny's have been made out of zinc with a very thin copper plating. Penny looks identical to another with the 2010 date- no effect. Also soaked another 55 gr. Speer bullet in the Warthog 1134, now coming up on 10 hours, and the solvent is a heavy dark blue. Finish on the bullet is very dull. Either my bottle of Sweets is defective, or Sweets in general is not very effective, or the Warthog is extremely effective. I will continue to use Warthog for heavy copper removal.

 

[Joeski]

I've tried about everything You owe it to yourself to try one of the foaming bore cleaners they work and the smell is tollerable. They're supposed to be non toxic too. Wipe out, Outers, I think gunslick has some too. IMHO they are probably made by one manufacturer with different labels... I used Outers and after the foam came out of the barrel and 20minutes later there wasn't a trace of copper in the barrel anywhere!!! And I didn't use a single patch to get to that stage the foam did all the work. alls I had to do was run about 3 patches to get the blue out of the barrel and then I ran a fourth with some oil on it cause I'm superstitious about not leaving a bit of oil in the barrel until I shoot it again and then of course I patch it dry before I shoot it. ;D

 

[fdshuster]

Joeski: I tried the Wipe-out, and realize & understand many like and use it. I had extreme difficulty controlling the out-of-control foam. Tried neoprene tubing, just a tiny squirt, etc. and it was like something from outer space, or the planet Mongo. When I did manage to keep it in the bore, and after giving it the recommended soak times, patched the bore 'til dry & used my Hawkeye borescope. Much of the copper remained. They make a brief mention that it removes carbon, and I found that to also be an overstatement. Just my experience(s), not knocking it, but find the Warthog1134 much more effective and easier to use. There are a lot of cleaning products out there that do their claimed jobs, maybe I was not using it properly, I don't know, just know that my other products work for me, without the hassle.

 

[Killshot]

I also had difficulties with the foaming WipeOut PatchOut.

I now use the bottled version preceeded by their accelerant and am very satisfied with it. Always fewer than ten patches to go from filthy to white.

 

[Forum Boss]

Here is easiest way to use Wipe-Out. (BTW, Wipe-Out is the ONLY foam we recommend. They are NOT all the same.)

[Optional: For starters, get loose carbon out with 3-4 soaking wet patches of Carb-out]

1. Insert cleaning rod bore guide (make sure it has a tight fit in chamber).

2. Put an old towel over the comb of your buttstock.

3. Push nose of Wipe-Out applicator directly onto muzzle. (The plastic spout, not the hose).

4. IMPORTANT -- Give one very short squeeze (maybe half a second). Wait a little bit and repeat (half-second shot for a 6mm bore). Now wait -- after a few seconds you should see the foam come out the bore guide.

5. Wait 20 minutes. Re-apply as in #4.

6. Using this method you should have no more than 2-3" of white foam come out of the end of the bore guide. and it will be absorbed by the towel. I have NO Trouble with excess Wipe out foam. Just be gentle and quick when you hit the dispense button on the top of the can.

7. After 2-3 hours, push Wipe-out out of barrel with cotton patches.

That's it, you're done. You don't need to neutralize or follow with oil.

The key thing is you'll benefit from a double application. You just need to wait for the bubbles to dissipate before the second app.

If you have real stubborn carbon, or just hate the foam, KG12 is an extremely effective copper cleaner. If you have build-up in the last 6" of your barrel, squirt KG12 directly in the barrel from muzzle, then follow with wet patches and [optional] brushes. I try to minimize brushing, but on some barrels it can be useful.

I do not brush my 3-groove handlapped barrels at all -- Wipe-out is sufficient. 3-groove barrels have wide, flat grooves and the foaming cleaners work well.

Sweets? There are many better, safer products available today.

 

[Aussie_bob]

I used WIPE-OUT Foam Then Changed to PATCH-OUT Works fine and when i could not get any of those i used Butchers Boreshine it also works well i never use Bronze brushes sometimes will use a Nylon brush to foam up the butchers or Patchout.

 

[artbosco]

Here is easiest way to use Wipe-Out. (BTW, Wipe-Out is the ONLY foam we recommend. They are NOT all the same.)

[Optional: For starters, get loose carbon out with 3-4 soaking wet patches of Carb-out]

1. Insert cleaning rod bore guide (make sure it has a tight fit in chamber).

2. Put an old towel over the comb of your buttstock.

3. Push nose of Wipe-Out applicator directly onto muzzle. (The plastic spout, not the hose).

4. IMPORTANT -- Give one very short squeeze (maybe half a second). Wait a little bit and repeat (half-second shot for a 6mm bore). Now wait -- after a few seconds you should see the foam come out the bore guide.

5. Wait 20 minutes. Re-apply as in #4.

6. Using this method you should have no more than 2-3" of white foam come out of the end of the bore guide. and it will be absorbed by the towel. I have NO Trouble with excess Wipe out foam. Just be gentle and quick when you hit the dispense button on the top of the can.

7. After 2-3 hours, push Wipe-out out of barrel with cotton patches.

That's it, you're done. You don't need to neutralize or follow with oil.

The key thing is you'll benefit from a double application. You just need to wait for the bubbles to dissipate before the second app.

If you have real stubborn carbon, or just hate the foam, KG12 is an extremely effective copper cleaner. If you have build-up in the last 6" of your barrel, squirt KG12 directly in the barrel from muzzle, then follow with wet patches and [optional] brushes. I try to minimize brushing, but on some barrels it can be useful.

I do not brush my 3-groove handlapped barrels at all -- Wipe-out is sufficient. 3-groove barrels have wide, flat grooves and the foaming cleaners work well.

Sweets? There are many better, safer products available today.

3-5 tight fitting patches of JB Bore Cleaning Compound, which takes less than 5 minutes to complete if done properly, "Wipes Out" all the excessive time required for the above procedure.

In addition, Krieger proclaims: "JB cleans all types of fouling (copper, powder, lead, plastic), and has the added advantage of of polishing the throat during 'break in', and later on, when the throat begins to roughen again from the [additional] rounds fired."

No need for a shelf full of different cleaners. A general purpose solvent such as Butch's Bore Shine, and JB for the tough stuff, is all it takes to get a thorough cleaning done in a few Minutes vice 2.5 to 3.5 Hours. If you have any druthers with JB, use IOSSO.